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Freebie Challenge Questionaire

DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 2,847
in Freebies

As the freebie challenge is now a Community Volunteer Project, we would like to take the time to ask you all some questions and hear from you on changes/additions/thoughts you have on making the contest as friendly and fun as possible. We tend to do this annually with the New User Contest and thought it would be a good idea to do so with you all as well. So with that in mind I have a few questions for you all:

1. If you could change or remove one rule from the contest, what would it be and why?

2. Do you have any ideas you feel would add to the contest or make it more fun that we should consider?

3. Do you feel there is anything we could do to make the contest more inviting or easier to participate in?

4. How do you feel new contests should be chosen? By the CVs? By vote? By the previous winners?

5. Is there anything else we should know or consider or that you would like to say that is not specifically covered above?

I think that covers all the questions we have (for the moment) though as we get answers, we may add more. To everyone, thanks so much for taking the time to answer and discuss this with us. We look forward to working with you all to make the contest transition as fun and painless as possible :)

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Comments

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 2,410

    One rule I would change is regarding the Main morph sets for the base figures, such as the Morphs ++ for the Generation 4 figure, the Evolution Morphs for Genesis base, the Genesis 2 Male and female head and body Morphs sets, and Genesis 3 Head and Body Morphs sets. While people do have to pay for them to own them, these morph sets are often essential for many freebie character sets, particularly the morphs ++ sets. Jus about every Gen4 freebie character requires the Morphs ++ sets, and a good number of the freebie Genesis characters do as well. As such, I recommend that these morph sets be allowed as No-Count items. I would also recommend upping the Paid for maximum from 3 to 5. When you're dealing with multiple characters, it does get harder and harder to stay within 3 Paid For items, particularly given the relatively limited selection of freebie hair styles for Gen 4, Genesis and beyond. 

  • mCasualmCasual Posts: 4,607

    maybe there could be a picture gallery where only the submitted renders and not-an-entry images plus brief comments are attached,

    so one could quickly an full-screenily check out where the contest is going during the month

    or a special forum thread 

     

     

  • SlimerJSpudSlimerJSpud Posts: 1,453
    Tramp Graphics said:

    One rule I would change is regarding the Main morph sets for the base figures, such as the Morphs ++ for the Generation 4 figure, the Evolution Morphs for Genesis base, the Genesis 2 Male and female head and body Morphs sets, and Genesis 3 Head and Body Morphs sets. While people do have to pay for them to own them, these morph sets are often essential for many freebie character sets, particularly the morphs ++ sets. Jus about every Gen4 freebie character requires the Morphs ++ sets, and a good number of the freebie Genesis characters do as well. As such, I recommend that these morph sets be allowed as No-Count items. I would also recommend upping the Paid for maximum from 3 to 5. When you're dealing with multiple characters, it does get harder and harder to stay within 3 Paid For items, particularly given the relatively limited selection of freebie hair styles for Gen 4, Genesis and beyond. 

    I kind of agree, but perhaps all morphs++ AND 5 purchased items is a bit too generous. Maybe we should just say 5 purchased items and leave it at that. I'm always listing V4 morphs++ and M4 morphs++ which leaves me with only 1 more purchased item.

  • SixDsSixDs Posts: 2,384

    I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disagree with Tramp Graphics (no offense). While I do understand that it can be frustrating when you know that you have a paid item in your content that would be perfect for what you have in mind, and finding a free item that can substitute can be challenging, that is precisely why it is called a challenge. And, more specifically, why it is called a freebie challenge. I have always found ways of working within the limits on paid items, myself, even when the morph packages eat up my paid quota. Everything else simply needs to be free, is all. So, I would be against relaxing the rules on the number of paid items allowed, or what constitutes a paid item. The current rules create as level a playing field as possible while preserving the idea of the Freebie Challenge.

    As far as suggestions go, the one thing that I find missing from the rules and discussion surrounding the challenge, is the lack of judging criteria. On the first occasion when I volunteered to judge, I asked, naturally, what the selection criteria were for determining first, second, third and HM's. I was told that it was entirely up to me, a situation that I must confess I was not terribly comfortable with. I realize that judging art is by nature subjective, but it seems to me that the amount of subjectivity should be minimized as long as the Challenge is being run as a competition, with prizes awarded according to placement. At least some direction should be provided to entrants (and judges), in my opinion. Failing that, then perhaps winners should be chosen entirely by random draw from amongst the entrants. That way, it is less of a competition (and one based upon a nebulous set of selection criteria), and more of a challenge, with prizes awarded without prejudice. Just a thought.

  • srieschsriesch Posts: 4,241
    I'm actually pretty happy with the contest the way it is at the moment. I know I haven't entered much recently, but that's mostly due to time constraints or other projects in progress, or due to whether or not the theme catches my interest or I feel I have a good idea for a render or not. I haven't really seen any negative issues with the contest.
  • SixDsSixDs Posts: 2,384

    "4. How do you feel new contests should be chosen? By the CVs? By vote? By the previous winners?"

    Well, I don't really have a preference here, except to say that the individuals, or individual choosing the theme or subject should be exempt from competing, since this might give an unfair advantage (knowing in advance, having formulated their ideas, etc.). The problem with assigning the task to the previous "winner", is the quick turnaround involved. At midnight on the last day of the monthly challenge, winners must then be determined, then notified, then asked to come up with the theme for the current challenge with the clock already running. The only way I can see this working seamlessly, would be to have the previous month's winner choose a theme, sworn to secrecy. In other words, April's winner chooses the theme for June, and submits it any time in advance of June 1, and so forth. The issue of having that individual exempt from the competition for that month could be handled by making them a judge or the host for that month, unless these two concepts have been abandoned already?

  • nitehawk_ltdnitehawk_ltd Posts: 387

    Having previous winners as judges sounds like a good idea.

    As for judging criteria, Music4u was the final authority if it was acceptable.
    The 'host' & the guest judges decided if it best fit the monthly theme.
    This has worked so far, with minor changes made as necessary, over the years. 

    As the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". We need to decide who will be the boss judge.
    Although guild lines for the guest judges wouldn't hurt.

    Lets not tie ourselves down with too rigid rules. Need a little leeway so we can keep it fun!

    Gerry

  • ZamuelNowZamuelNow Posts: 753
    DAZ_ann0314 said:

    1. If you could change or remove one rule from the contest, what would it be and why?

    Like many have said, I'd have the base morphs considered No Counts. Otherwise, the three paid item limit is perfectly fair. Basic morphs allow a character to be unique but that doesn't determine the entire image.
  • MilosGulanMilosGulan Posts: 1,955

    1. If you could change or remove one rule from the contest, what would it be and why?

    Will have to think more about this, for now it seems everything is ok for me.

    2. Do you have any ideas you feel would add to the contest or make it more fun that we should consider?

    Well, nothing in particular. I like watching vids on Youtube, sometimes I just feel like droping in a music video then I rethink and decide that it is not a good idea :)

    3. Do you feel there is anything we could do to make the contest more inviting or easier to participate in?

    Hm, It needs a bit organization to take part in it but that is a challenge of it :)

    4. How do you feel new contests should be chosen? By the CVs? By vote? By the previous winners?

    I think voting might be fun but it might also be more complicated then other options. Choosing a theme by host or winner of the contest is ok for me mostly :)

    5. Is there anything else we should know or consider or that you would like to say that is not specifically covered above?

    I just enjoy contests and trying to take part in it. Wish I could ask things I don't know in it too, that is why I am still mostly interested for new user contest :)

     

     

  • IppotamusIppotamus Posts: 1,579

    1. If you could change or remove one rule from the contest, what would it be and why?

    I can agree with Tramp Graphics.  I would basically throw in all of the "base" morphs across the generations to count as part of the figure, especially with DAZ now nickle and diming us for even basic expressions.  :)  <--- see that smile?  $5.00

     

    2. Do you have any ideas you feel would add to the contest or make it more fun that we should consider?

    Mini-contests were always fun.  Like the bag hag for example ... or best use of picnic basket ... something like that.

     

    3. Do you feel there is anything we could do to make the contest more inviting or easier to participate in?

    I don't see how you can make it any easier besides lowing the freebie count to maybe 8.

    But I have never had a problem finding 10 freebies to use.  Really, all you can do is advertise as best you can. 

    I know I don't see banners anymore, so that task may become more difficult.

     

    4. How do you feel new contests should be chosen? By the CVs? By vote? By the previous winners?

    I would go with either CVs or previous winners.  Voting just wastes time that could be used creating and rendering.  Previous winners might get you some more variety in themes.

     

    5. Is there anything else we should know or consider or that you would like to say that is not specifically covered above?

    Really, this is a fun contest as it is and it has stood the test of time.  No major changes are required.

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 2,410
    edited August 2015
    SlimerJSpud said:
    Tramp Graphics said:

    One rule I would change is regarding the Main morph sets for the base figures, such as the Morphs ++ for the Generation 4 figure, the Evolution Morphs for Genesis base, the Genesis 2 Male and female head and body Morphs sets, and Genesis 3 Head and Body Morphs sets. While people do have to pay for them to own them, these morph sets are often essential for many freebie character sets, particularly the morphs ++ sets. Jus about every Gen4 freebie character requires the Morphs ++ sets, and a good number of the freebie Genesis characters do as well. As such, I recommend that these morph sets be allowed as No-Count items. I would also recommend upping the Paid for maximum from 3 to 5. When you're dealing with multiple characters, it does get harder and harder to stay within 3 Paid For items, particularly given the relatively limited selection of freebie hair styles for Gen 4, Genesis and beyond. 

    I kind of agree, but perhaps all morphs++ AND 5 purchased items is a bit too generous. Maybe we should just say 5 purchased items and leave it at that. I'm always listing V4 morphs++ and M4 morphs++ which leaves me with only 1 more purchased item.

    Given the choice between only one of my suggestions, I'd rather have the Morphs ++ et all as no-counts over the increase in paid fors specifically because of hoiw necessary they are for the use of many freebie character sets.  

    SixDs said:

    I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disagree with Tramp Graphics (no offense). While I do understand that it can be frustrating when you know that you have a paid item in your content that would be perfect for what you have in mind, and finding a free item that can substitute can be challenging, that is precisely why it is called a challenge. And, more specifically, why it is called a freebie challenge. I have always found ways of working within the limits on paid items, myself, even when the morph packages eat up my paid quota. Everything else simply needs to be free, is all. So, I would be against relaxing the rules on the number of paid items allowed, or what constitutes a paid item. The current rules create as level a playing field as possible while preserving the idea of the Freebie Challenge.

    As far as suggestions go, the one thing that I find missing from the rules and discussion surrounding the challenge, is the lack of judging criteria. On the first occasion when I volunteered to judge, I asked, naturally, what the selection criteria were for determining first, second, third and HM's. I was told that it was entirely up to me, a situation that I must confess I was not terribly comfortable with. I realize that judging art is by nature subjective, but it seems to me that the amount of subjectivity should be minimized as long as the Challenge is being run as a competition, with prizes awarded according to placement. At least some direction should be provided to entrants (and judges), in my opinion. Failing that, then perhaps winners should be chosen entirely by random draw from amongst the entrants. That way, it is less of a competition (and one based upon a nebulous set of selection criteria), and more of a challenge, with prizes awarded without prejudice. Just a thought.

    The reason I suggest making the Morphs ++, Genesis Evolution Morphs, and those for Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 as well no counts is because many freebie character sets require these morph packages to even use because the specific freebie character morphs are dial spun presets using these morph packages, rather than custom sculpted.  In fact, almost all Generation 4 freebie characters, (and paid for characters) require Morph ++ to use unless you're only using the textures. Thus, These mopr psckages aren't simply a convenience, they're essential. 

    Post edited by Tramp Graphics on
  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 13,201
    Tramp Graphics said:
    SlimerJSpud said:
    Tramp Graphics said:

    One rule I would change is regarding the Main morph sets for the base figures, such as the Morphs ++ for the Generation 4 figure, the Evolution Morphs for Genesis base, the Genesis 2 Male and female head and body Morphs sets, and Genesis 3 Head and Body Morphs sets. While people do have to pay for them to own them, these morph sets are often essential for many freebie character sets, particularly the morphs ++ sets. Jus about every Gen4 freebie character requires the Morphs ++ sets, and a good number of the freebie Genesis characters do as well. As such, I recommend that these morph sets be allowed as No-Count items. I would also recommend upping the Paid for maximum from 3 to 5. When you're dealing with multiple characters, it does get harder and harder to stay within 3 Paid For items, particularly given the relatively limited selection of freebie hair styles for Gen 4, Genesis and beyond. 

    I kind of agree, but perhaps all morphs++ AND 5 purchased items is a bit too generous. Maybe we should just say 5 purchased items and leave it at that. I'm always listing V4 morphs++ and M4 morphs++ which leaves me with only 1 more purchased item.

    Given the choice between only one of my suggestions, I'd rather have the Morphs ++ et all as no-counts over the increase in paid fors specifically because of hoiw necessary they are for the use of many freebie character sets.  

    SixDs said:

    I'm afraid that I'm going to have to disagree with Tramp Graphics (no offense). While I do understand that it can be frustrating when you know that you have a paid item in your content that would be perfect for what you have in mind, and finding a free item that can substitute can be challenging, that is precisely why it is called a challenge. And, more specifically, why it is called a freebie challenge. I have always found ways of working within the limits on paid items, myself, even when the morph packages eat up my paid quota. Everything else simply needs to be free, is all. So, I would be against relaxing the rules on the number of paid items allowed, or what constitutes a paid item. The current rules create as level a playing field as possible while preserving the idea of the Freebie Challenge.

    As far as suggestions go, the one thing that I find missing from the rules and discussion surrounding the challenge, is the lack of judging criteria. On the first occasion when I volunteered to judge, I asked, naturally, what the selection criteria were for determining first, second, third and HM's. I was told that it was entirely up to me, a situation that I must confess I was not terribly comfortable with. I realize that judging art is by nature subjective, but it seems to me that the amount of subjectivity should be minimized as long as the Challenge is being run as a competition, with prizes awarded according to placement. At least some direction should be provided to entrants (and judges), in my opinion. Failing that, then perhaps winners should be chosen entirely by random draw from amongst the entrants. That way, it is less of a competition (and one based upon a nebulous set of selection criteria), and more of a challenge, with prizes awarded without prejudice. Just a thought.

    The reason I suggest making the Morphs ++, Genesis Evolution Morphs, and those for Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 as well no counts is because many freebie character sets require these morph packages to even use because the specific freebie character morphs are dial spun presets using these morph packages, rather than custom sculpted.  In fact, almost all Generation 4 freebie characters, (and paid for characters) require Morph ++ to use unless you're only using the textures. Thus, These mopr psckages aren't simply a convenience, they're essential. 

    I agree on the morphs packages being made a No-Count item.  It is very difficult to find custom sculpted morphs that are freebies.  Perhaps even impossible.  I know I haven't seen any, that I can recall.

    I would not include packages such as Creature Creator Morphs and other specialized morph sets in this bunch, though.  They should definitely remain as Paid items.

    Dana

  • katfeetekatfeete Posts: 255
    DAZ_ann0314 said:

    As the freebie challenge is now a Community Volunteer Project, we would like to take the time to ask you all some questions and hear from you on changes/additions/thoughts you have on making the contest as friendly and fun as possible. We tend to do this annually with the New User Contest and thought it would be a good idea to do so with you all as well. So with that in mind I have a few questions for you all:

    1. If you could change or remove one rule from the contest, what would it be and why?

    I realize this will be an unpopular one, but: the No Postwork rule.

    Basically I don't feel there is a reason for it. The idea behind this contest is that everything involved (besides the Paid Items) is free, that you're proving you can produce quality artwork without spending a mint. I wholeheartedly support this idea, but I also feel postwork is part of quality artwork. Nor does it require expensive software. The GIMP does nearly everything Photoshop does -- certainly everything I've ever needed -- and it is 100% free.  I understand it may be hard to tell if postwork has been done by fancy, expensive Photoshop instead of freebie Gimp, but realistically this competition relies on everyone being honest about what they've used and what they've done: I don't see "cheating" as much of a problem for a wee little contest like this. And postwork, as a tool, is much more limited than people seem to think. It cannot help you with bad posing (the biggest spoiler of a render in existence for me!), a bad camera angle, or bad layout and composition. It can help a little with lighting and color balance -- but only a little, only if you're willing to put in the work to do render-per-light or similiar techniques, and only if your lighting and color were pretty good anyway. You can compensate for having a lesser machine by doing things like rendering the scene in several passes and compositing the layers in Gimp, and you can more efficently deal with the limitations of, say, freebie clothing, by fixing poke-through or bad bends in the postwork stage (about 90% of my "postwork" involves either the Blur or the Clone tools. :) ) You can also layer on special effects, from cigarette smoke and water droplets to lens flare and shiny filters, but unless you have a really good render sitting under those, it's the proverbial lipstick on a pig.

    As I said -- I don't think this is a popular viewpoint, and it's possible it's based on a very limited idea of what postwork can do. If so, someone please explain it to me. I will take notes on how I'm not properly using my tools. :) But as it stands, I simply don't understand why this rule exists. 

    2. Do you have any ideas you feel would add to the contest or make it more fun that we should consider?

    It'd be nice if there was a way to see all current entries besides the thread, and if that were linked in the opening post. Even when I'm not entering, I like to go through and look at the entries, and as amusing as it is to scroll through all the various pie-throwing I don't always have the time. :D

    DAZ_ann0314 said:

    3. Do you feel there is anything we could do to make the contest more inviting or easier to participate in?

    Unless you can stick an extra few hours on each of my days, no....

    DAZ_ann0314 said:

    4. How do you feel new contests should be chosen? By the CVs? By vote? By the previous winners?

    A vote would certainly be interesting. I don't know. I feel vaguely I'd like to see some new and different angles on the contest themes, but I have no clear idea how. May come back to this.

  • OdaaOdaa Posts: 1,548

    1. If you could change or remove one rule from the contest, what would it be and why?

    The no-postwork rule.  Penalizing someone for understanding the basics of Photoshop, Gimp, or Paint.net because they can fix pokethrough seems about as meaningful as penalizing the Bryce users because their software does scenery better.  

    2. Do you have any ideas you feel would add to the contest or make it more fun that we should consider?

    I enjoyed some of the more offbeat themes like "Shakespeare with a twist".  Or "Design a cover for your favorite book".

    3. Do you feel there is anything we could do to make the contest more inviting or easier to participate in?

    We went through (IMO) a bad phase a few years back where it seemed like there was a lot of snark and attitude being thrown around by the people enforcing the rules.  (Part of what left a bad taste in my mouth about the no-postwork rule).  So long as we don't go back to that, we should be fine.

    4. How do you feel new contests should be chosen? By the CVs? By vote? By the previous winners?

    I think it should be up to the CVs overseeing the upcoming contest.  They can certainly solicit ideas from the forum as a whole if they feel it necessary.

    5. Is there anything else we should know or consider or that you would like to say that is not specifically covered above?

    This contest is always a lot of fun to watch in action, and I found it very helpful as a motivator and guide to freebies when I first joined, so there is a lot of nostalgia for me involved in checking in.

  • Tramp GraphicsTramp Graphics Posts: 2,410

    As far as how the themes for each month are chosen, I'm fine with how it's done now. A "host" volunteers to run each month and chooses the theme. Of course, I still like the annual themes we have for certain months (such as June's Summer Fun and Pin-ups, and October's Monster Mash) and those should never go away, IMO. I always look forward to them. I realize the hard part is sometimes finding a "volunteer", but overall, the system works. 

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    edited August 2015

    We need some more ideas.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Sky77Sky77 Posts: 820
    DAZ_ann0314 said:

    1. If you could change or remove one rule from the contest, what would it be and why?

    As several have mentioned above, I would agree with the morph++ as being a non-counted item ONLY IF it is used in conjunction with a freebie that requires it.  I do feel though if the freebie morph or character does use the morph++, it should be noted when listing the freebie.  On the other hand if the morph++ are not used by a freebie but by the artist to create a unique character that is not given as a freebie, then the morph++ should be counted as a paid item.

    2. Do you have any ideas you feel would add to the contest or make it more fun that we should consider?

    I always loved the silliness of the mini-contests... the hag bag being the penultimate favorite.  The sillier and more creatively challenging the better!  :) 

    3. Do you feel there is anything we could do to make the contest more inviting or easier to participate in?

    Are we still doing the entry gifts for everyone who enters? 

    4. How do you feel new contests should be chosen? By the CVs? By vote? By the previous winners?

    I think the CVs or volunteer judges should still be the ones to chose the winners.  The one nice thing about this contest is that everyone gets to play.  Having prior winners be "elected" judges will limit those who want to enter.  Of course if the winner wants to volunteer as a judge, I have no problem with that.  

    5. Is there anything else we should know or consider or that you would like to say that is not specifically covered above?

    For me, as a pseudonewbie, the freebie contest has always been a fun, low key atmosphere to try out new techniques, improve skills, and bounce around ideas.  I would encourage all newbies, especially folks like me who knew nothing about 3D software, to drop by here and try something new.  Its been a great way to collect 3D assets without spending an arm and a leg while learning how to use all this cool stuff.  (and even then I still spent an arm and a leg buying out the DAZ store wink)  

  • Sky77Sky77 Posts: 820

    Also... any chance that we might get the forum archive back on line???

  • magicweavermagicweaver Posts: 244
    edited August 2015

    1. If you could change or remove one rule from the contest, what would it be and why?

    A.  I'd add another payed item (just one)

    2. Do you have any ideas you feel would add to the contest or make it more fun that we should consider?

    A.  yes, once a year, around this time, we have to have a contest about something to do with the ones that started this project, or a word puzzle about it or just something to honor the ones of monethy fun, I stopped participating because I like to watch instead lol.

    3. Do you feel there is anything we could do to make the contest more inviting or easier to participate in?

    A.  up the anty.

    4. How do you feel new contests should be chosen? By the CVs? By vote? By the previous winners?

    A. previous winner would be awesome and fair!

    5. Is there anything else we should know or consider or that you would like to say that is not specifically covered above?

    A.  nope just those, thank you for acting like ya give a damn, thats important to folks, everyone wants to feel usful lmao almost put usless, eh! frued had a point...

    Post edited by magicweaver on
  • Sky77Sky77 Posts: 820
    edited August 2015

    Oh and I totally forgot to address the ever controversial NO-Postwork rule.  This is one that has been of hot debate for years and has caused some ill will in some participants.  In the defense of those who came before, sometimes the rules seemed hard and unyielding, but it was done as an effort to just simplify the system and to reduce the "gray areas" of contention as much as possible.  If the rules become too complicated, it also makes it harder to follow and difficult to enjoy the process... for example: the U.S. tax laws.  wink  

    Let me start by saying that this contest has always been about sharing not just our art skills but also the cool finds in and around the internet.  The showcase focus has always been the "Freebie."  That being said, I personally feel that we should all endeavor to put our best ART forward.  I agree, after 20 hours of rendering, sometimes there is just something missing or something to tweak.  Often, the tiny tweaks are better done in Photoshop or Gimp, such as fixing a little poke through or slight adjustment of the color of the sky or lighting.  Occasionally, a stray item gets added or forgotten that either makes or breaks the balance of the image that could easily removed or inserted in 10 minutes rather than another 20 hours re-rendering.  Ok I admit it, I am a perfectionist but for me, if what I come up with is not something I am proud of at the end of rendering, I would hesitate to post it.  

    The concern has always been that the spirit of the contest would be lost if the focus was on postwork, and with that I agree.  I would not condone using postwork to completely alter the appearance of a rendered item - creating morphs that don't exist, changing the texture beyond what is recognizable with the freebie, etc.  I also would not condone the use of postwork to add major elements to a render like a character or object to the scene (e.g. "hey where do I get that awesome morph of Angelina Jolie... oh it's just a postworked photo" or "hey that is a beautiful oak tree ... darn, it was just painted in").   In my opinion, making the rules simple as possible allows the artist to focus on what is really the heart and spirit of the contest and not worry about what is allowed or not allowed.

    Post edited by Sky77 on
  • DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 2,847
    edited August 2015

    Maybe I should take this moment to explain how the CVs run the current New User contest as it may help with how that Team works on contests as a whole since they are now "in charge" of this contest (I oversee that team)

    First generally the CVs choose the theme for the New User Contest - In the case of that contest, we have a schedule of teaching points (its more a learning experience than a contest per say) and then we formulate contest around what we want to teach that month (Posing, morphing, shaders, etc)

    Next we have a participation thread where you can ask questions, get help, refine your entry

    Then we have a final entry thread where all entries (No discussion) are placed together and the judging is done based on the images submitted to that thread.

    Then we judge...we do allow postwork for MOST contests though not all as the team are all well versed enough to spot what it done in postwork and what is not so it doesn't affect the judging either way. They do have criteria to go by and we do have a list of things we look at from who helped the most to who progressed the most using the Participation Thread to get feedback (Most Improved) to who best shows an understanding of the topics covered for the month based on the artwork produced.

    I will say from reading, to me, I agree about Morphs++ (or rather the Evolution, morphs++ etc morph packs not counting against you since other freebie providers do use those. It is like penalizing someone from not being good at doing or finding "from scratch" morphs so I think you won your argument there for me.

    On Postwork, if the CVs judge, we can tell the difference between postwork and not postworked (mostly with some small exceptions) but generally "the prettiest picture" is not exactly our "criteria" so it's not relevant. We tend to go by most original uses (at least for a contest like this) combined with most refined look, which best depicts the theme while creatively using the free items (and I am not sure altering a freebie yourself should harm you...you are in effect not buying anything to do what you are doing and putting in extra work and time so not sure that should count for OR against you) Though I will think more on the ins and outs of that, this is more my initial thoughts at this moment. Anyway, I think that would probably be what we would be looking at for this contest so postwork may also be added to the "Okay by me" list.

    Other points of interest I've read:

    You all like extra random prizes
    You all also like small random contests within the month on occasion
    Picking themes it seems you would like to go to either the previous winners or the CVs. I can say CVs are not allowed to participate in the contests they run so the "They would know in advance and it could give them an edge" part would not be an issue if CVs judge. They can post art if they choose but they are for fun No - Entries. It's one of the rules to being a CV :)

    Post edited by DAZ_ann0314 on
  • ZamuelNowZamuelNow Posts: 753
    I'm not big on postwork but I find myself wondering if two specific concessions could be made due to some of the more reasonable requests. One would be fixing pokethrough. It improves an image without altering the overall render. The other would be allowing composition layering. Some people have an artistic eye but their systems simply can't render some complete scenes and thus have to render parts separately and paste them together.
  • MegonNoelMegonNoel Posts: 377

    1. If you could change or remove one rule from the contest, what would it be and why?

    I would remove the postwork rule completely. Postwork is a valuable part of some people's production. I don't like submitting things that I feel are unfinished and postwork is a part of my process. The rule is also depriving people of the oprotunity to find out about new postwork freebies. There are incredible brushes available for free all over the web for photoshop and gimp (I know photoshop is a paid item and I would be fine with counting it as such in my entry). And since brushes and other postwork related products are available for sale at DAZ3D it seems like even the store operators recognize it as relevant. 

    2. Do you have any ideas you feel would add to the contest or make it more fun that we should consider?

    Right now mini games and mini challenges are optional, but from the times that I've frequented the challenge I've found that they're rarely utilized. Often times people will choose not to enter because the theme is too narrow or not something they're interested in so maybe more mini challenges or secondary themes would help increase interest.

    3. Do you feel there is anything we could do to make the contest more inviting or easier to participate in?

    Simplify the rules and maybe cut the required freebies by a couple. I know that longtime users think the rules are super easy, but the first time I opened up that "rules" page and saw that long list of rules I just closed the browser and left. It was like another 3 months until I actually entered for the first time. I know it may not seem this way from the inside, but with that many rules and complicated guidelines, to someone who has never participated the challenge may feel like it's designed to keep people out - it feels kind of "cliquey".

    I'm not saying that the people involved in the challenge are actually like that, quite the opposite. After I finally participated I found the people here to be lovely and accepting, which is why I think streamlining the rules and making it easier to join the challenge is vital, otherwise newbies to the challenge will never get a chance to know what it's really like.

     

  • DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 2,847
    edited August 2015

    Honestly, I've seen the debate back and forth over the years about postwork vs no postwork. It isn't fair and the like. Postwork takes time and talent etc to go into it (and there are freebies for it as well as mentioned previously by others) just like setting up an amazing render with no postwork takes time and talent, so for me I am guessing I will probably allow it. To offset it though, what I may add to the rules is that you have to post your "before" and "after" postwork images with your entry if you use postwork. Not for light postwork like fixing some pokethrough or a touch of levels to add punch, or for those having to composite due to restrictions but rather for those that are doing major postwork which should keep it fair. Also not ALL contests will allow it. Some may, some may not but when it is not allowed we would say it isn't.

    Post edited by DAZ_ann0314 on
  • IppotamusIppotamus Posts: 1,579

    Well, I will not debate the debate again.  It has been debated.

    But I will say that the no postwork rule was part of the charm and the challenge.

    It made the freebie challenge different.

    Now, it will be just another postwork exercise.

    The majority seem to want it though.

    So I will wish you the best of luck.  ;)

  • music2u4umusic2u4u Posts: 2,822

    Glad to see the challenge going good. I wanted to say, in the 7 years that I ran it, each of these questions has come up time and again. Most questions never could be resolved as everyone had a different opinion of how it should be ran. Eventually, after many weeks of jabbering, we would reach an agreement on specifics and it would become a "rule". Even then, not all were happy with it. So...to make it all go well, I will recommend that you think on terms that will benefit the entire population in here, not just yourself. You will have to do this in order for Daz to reach a comfortable decission about these things. If not, the bickering and indecissions could go on for months, like it did with me before. We all had to learn how to agree on things. Do as you will, but keep this in mind from someone with a heck of a lot of experience in this challenge. smiley

     

     

  • SixDsSixDs Posts: 2,384

    "I will recommend that you think on terms that will benefit the entire population in here, not just yourself"

    Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

    P.S. Nice to see you're still lurking about, Music!

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    DanaTA said:
    I agree on the morphs packages being made a No-Count item.  It is very difficult to find custom sculpted morphs that are freebies.  Perhaps even impossible.  I know I haven't seen any, that I can recall.

    I would not include packages such as Creature Creator Morphs and other specialized morph sets in this bunch, though.  They should definitely remain as Paid items.

    Dana

    Umm...mine aren't dial spun.  They're sculpts.

  • DarkSpartanDarkSpartan Posts: 1,096
    mjc1016 said:
    DanaTA said:
    I agree on the morphs packages being made a No-Count item.  It is very difficult to find custom sculpted morphs that are freebies.  Perhaps even impossible.  I know I haven't seen any, that I can recall.

    I would not include packages such as Creature Creator Morphs and other specialized morph sets in this bunch, though.  They should definitely remain as Paid items.

    Dana

    Umm...mine aren't dial spun.  They're sculpts.

    That makes you one of the rare freebie makers in this regard. But then I still haven't worked out how to use Maya LT to separate head and body morphs.

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 13,201
    edited August 2015
    mjc1016 said:
    DanaTA said:
    I agree on the morphs packages being made a No-Count item.  It is very difficult to find custom sculpted morphs that are freebies.  Perhaps even impossible.  I know I haven't seen any, that I can recall.

    I would not include packages such as Creature Creator Morphs and other specialized morph sets in this bunch, though.  They should definitely remain as Paid items.

    Dana

    Umm...mine aren't dial spun.  They're sculpts.

    OK, I stand corrected.  But many more are dial spun than are not.  People are starting to learn Zbrush and Sculptris now, so that may start changing.

    Dana

    Post edited by DanaTA on
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