The best 3rd party software to create animations for Daz?
xlpasstest
Posts: 48
I tried Blender and Import_daz, but it's not very good at importing back to Daz.
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What generation of Character are you targeting in Daz studio.
Also are you using Diffeo/Blender with Simple IK?
That said the best external application for animating the Daz figures Are Autodesk Motionbuilder, Maya and Reallusion Iclone
All of which are $$costly$$ solutions.
As for Cascaduer there seems to be some question about the FREE version having a complete pipeline back to Daz studio as stated @6:31 of this video
IIRC @Gordig
uses Cascaduer with Dazstudio so perhaps he could chime in here.
Blender with Diffeomorphic Daz Importer (DDI) add-on should be the best free combo for OP's request. You may well import animation back to DS.
Besides, if you also consider non-free way, strongly recommend Cascadeur which is an AI-assisted animation software with the enablement of realtime physical result and it's fully compatible with DS, Blender...pipelines. https://cascadeur.com/
If OP wanna go for Cascadeur (free version) with DS first for a trial, that'll be still doable to resolve that 120 joints limit issue in the latest version of Cascaderu Pro ~
I ever gave two workarounds in this thread - https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/660601/how-to-limit-which-bones-to-be-exported-from-daz-in-fbx
mysteryisthepoint was developing something for Daz->Blender->Daz pipeline with the stated purpose
But it's not out yet
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/612756/hitchens-a-daz-studio-to-blender-live-link/p1
The Daz Studio plugin is coming, but not yet ready... but HEAT is a place where we'll be able to create, sell, buy, subscribe, and/or use free motions for Daz Studio and other popular engines.
HEAT - Animation Made Epic
When ready, I believe that this will allow us to animate figures directly within it, and send them back to Daz Studio. When looking at subscription plans, I'm fairly certain that the "Storage" space is for our own animation creations. I'll know more details in time.
For now, I still prefer using the powerful tools of aniMate 2 right within Studio
Yeah ~ I've been waiting for mysteryisthepoint to pack the package
What about cascadeur? Does it send back to DS okay?
I would say very OK, so far so good ~ I will share some result after holidays
All Daz Studio
Just a day or two ago, I got an email from the Cascadeur people and apparently, the Pro (paid) version has presets for importing G8, and they say other figures are coming. To export back to DS, you load a pose preset much like with Diffeo. I haven't tried it, but it looks promising. I would pay for Cascadeur, as they appear to be a company that listens to its users.
As for Hitchens, the TL;DR is that I thought I understood Twist bones, but I didn't.
The long version is that that stalled progress, but in playing around with G9's twist bones, now I think I do. If you've ever noticed that the twist bones's twist is always the same a the parent bone's, this made me think that you just don't set the twist and there's some sort of driver that makes the twist bone follow the parent. That seemed to work, but it's wrong sometimes. Then I thought you set it to the same value as the parent's twist, and that seemed to work, but not quite. But then looking at how G9's two twist bones is seems like the twist of say, G9's arm is distributed across the three bones in some constant proportion. So a lightbulb came on for G8... it's not that the twist is copied from one bone to the other, as it looked (because the twist values for both were always the same), I think G8s work the same as G9s... the total twist of the arm is distributed across the parent bone and the two values are the same not because one is copied to the other, but because it's a 50% split. So I tried it in Blender, and sure enough, if you set up a driver to put 50% of the source armature's twist on each of the G8 bones, the deformation looks perfect. It is extremely frustrating when something like this !@#$ is not written down anywhere.
OK, so that was a long explanation, but no the unfortunate wrinkle is that Hitchens worked so well because dealt with Quaternions exclusively. But Quaternions don't work like Euler Angles (actually, Tait-Bryan angles) and you can't just separate out the twist angle and divide it by two to distribute it equally across two bones. That means that I have to essentially re-write the whole thing, and somehow deal with all the crap that Quaternions allowed me to avoid.
But I've made a lot of progress in other way, like the new hair system and orther things that were meant to speed up development including a standalone program that can load scenes and doesn't require you to open DAZ Studio at all. But even there I've encountered a lot of DSBS: something that a spent A LOT of time on, a content gatherer that decreased figure load time from over 3 minutes down to 15 seconds and stored the entire scene in a single zip file that Hitchens could load, "almost worked" in that it would not be able to find three or four random morphs that I knew were there. Then I noticed that the order of loading morphs was different every time and though "Oh lord help us, they threaded morph loading" and that's why it has recently gotten faster. But it broke my content gatherer and I doubt anyone at DAZ is going to help me understand how this opaque process works. So I gave up and have recently gotten back to the original task of round-trip animation.
So it's still coming, it's just that the lack of documentation on anything is killing me.
You know, reading that (above post) made me think of a workflow that might help a whole lot.
Instead of using G3, 8 or 9 in Blender, use Genesis 1 or 2 to create your animations. Back in Daz Studio, use the appropriate Bone Minion, which does an Amazing job for me with my Genesis 2 Mixamo downloads.
Also, if it turns out to be easier for you to transform (translate/rotate/scale) the main figure using the base figure instead of the hip, go ahead and do so. Then back in DS use 3DU's Body2Hip script before creating a new aniBlock.
Bone Minion already transfers all of the additional rotational values for you - and it works well across any length of animation.
While they might seem like an investment I have to say - a short time with them transferring animations and the cost disappears from your mind. Plus, you only really need to get the one you need at the time. For me, that was a couple of bundles and I'm going to collect them all, because all of the generations are valuable to me - and my library is so full of great stuff for each of them - why not put their actors to use?!!!
It would sure be a Lot less headache than trying to deal with what you're going through - that's for sure.
I've only been in Daz Studio for a few years now. I did so to get compatibility. I'm tired of spending all of my time making conversions, corrections, throwing away weeks... months of my life.
In Daz Studio, it all just works!
And now with the latest General release update, the keys in the timeline are a lot bigger and easier to manage, and we can grab them by their main group key (even multiples) and move them along the timeline - without having to drill down into the hierarchy to get at the main keys.
It's like the animation woes have disappeared exponentially in Daz Studio.
Next month I'll be doing a webinar at Digital Art Live on how I'm rendering these animations in Daz Studio using Iray and getting the job done fast. Watching documentaries and talking to VFX folks (and attending VFX school) has helped me Immensely in developing more of a workflow that offers high render speeds and a Lot more control over the final motion picture.
I'm still just getting started in all of this and I think it's already looking pretty sweet?
Thank you for such a complete reply.
I am using G8.1 and G9 at the same time.
Simple IK has too many limitations and it's very inconvenient to move the animation.
How do I import from aya / Autodesk Motionbuilder to Daz3d? Do you have a tutorial for that?
Thank you!
I've seen the Cascadeur, and it's very attractive, but it's a bit overpriced for amateurs.
And I believe only the Pro version will support the G9 in the future.
This is not good news.
@xlpasstest
Hi, I do not have Motionbuilder only Maya
You will have to search youtube for specific tutorials on MOBU however the process is far easier from MOBU it seems.
LIke MOBU in Maya we have to create a character definition
before creating a HIK control rig for animation and retargeting
Very Similar to the way it is done in Reallusion CC4 except CC4 already has Character profiles for the Daz genesis figures to speed up the proccess of retargeting iclone motion to G1/2/3/8/9 for BVH export to Daz studio.
Maya actually requires a third party
MEL script to export BVH
Frankly I actually prefer Reallusion over Autodesk Maya for sending motion back to VDaz
I plan to use Maya mostly for pro level VFX (Bifrost ,Ncloth, Xgen hair etc).
Mod edit: we didn't catch this earlier, video removed as it contained nudity.
1st, Pro version doesn't support G9, I still had to manually map the joints. 2nd, there're quite a lot of people are now playing with free version ...
OK, if you really want to do that, try this.
And some day, hopefully soon, I will get Hitchens working, and that, to me, will represent the absolute easiest way to do it.
@Dartanbeck
Thanks DB for feeling my pain, but being an Open Source Software proponent, I don't want to depend on anything I can't get the source code for; been burned by that one too many times.
But just as with Sagan, sooner or later stumbling around blindly because nothing is documented, will result in something that works. It's just a matter of time.
TheMysteryIsThePoint you might just be the one to bring OpenPose to DAZ studio or at least Blender
while everyone is using ControlNet to apply poses to their AI Diffusions wouldn't it be awesome to pose out DAZ people like people in photos
yes I know Plask exists for video and webcam animation but a DAZ compatable single pose copier might be a tad less challenging than trying animation with all those pesky twist bones
and would please 90% DAZ of users
(I gave up on Plask long ago because I spend more time fixing the captured animation than it would take to keyframe it from scratch and that's before even trying to get it onto DAZ people)
Hi Wendy, unfortunately, if I can do a single frame, I can do any arbitrary animation; it's all or nothing. I haven't re-looked at the retargetting part since Blender 4, I expect a little bit of breakage, but while Blender is complicated, it is documented and there are devs who appear to have the slightest care about whether you succeed in your endeavors or not. That's actually sufficient.
Your OpenPose idea is interesting...
Gotcha. I was actually meaning for someone wanting to get animations from Blender (or wherever) into DS.
If they'd do so using a pre-Genesis 3 Daz Figure, the BVH would transfer straight to the base figure used. Then just Bone Minion it to the target figure, save as Pose or Create aniBlock or both, sell it or use it.
And if they used the base of the figure to move it instead of the hip (which can often be a lot easier if the hip is rotating around like it should), then just use Body2Hip before saving the pose and/or aniBlock - Bam.
I'm only saying all of this because in the few short years I've been in DS, I've been finding more and more that the rumors about not being able to animate in DS are as false as can be. I'm really having a blast here!
Did you know that aniMate 2 (at least the paid version - never used DS without it) has a lovely cubic interpolation tweener - and that we can use aniMate 2 for making key frame animations from scratch, using that tweener? It's like a bezier, but it will not exceed the highest value or go below the lowest, yet it smoothly curves into the key from the other end!
Being able to go back and forth between DS Timeline and aniMate 2 is as easy as putting soft butter on toast, and aniMate 2 has some incredible little tools that make animation a Blast!
Now, since the most recent update to DS, we actually have nice keys in the timeline. We can select them while collapsed and drag them around - even multiples - which is one of the big issues that I've had animating in DS in the first place - with the ability to make our own tools (my own fun animation method), use the new timeline, switch to aniMate 2, use those tools and blend other stuff in, etc., I wouldn't know why anyone wanting to have animations in Daz Studio would prefer going through all of the <edited - Think of the Children!!!> it takes to go back and fourth to/from Blender or something else - unless they alreay have a solid workflow for animation in that software?
Check this out!
(second half has the character animations - 2 minute video)
Using aniMate 2 for hand-keyed animations, we can work in animation layers - each layer can contain any data we want in there. Even use one layer to contradict the other to correct problems or smooth something out. It also has it's own graph editor. So with the paid version activated, we have two separate graph editors in Studio.
I can run a simple walk cycle and optimize it in aniMate 2.
Now let's say I want that chatacter to reach out and slap someone in the middle of that walk.
If the walk is cycling from a single cycle over a longer period of time, I click a button and turn the whole thing into a single block, rather than a repeating one.
Now I enter key frame mode and animate the change for reaching out and slapping. I can do this using layers to make it easier to see what I'm doing and keep things straight.
Next I back up to a point before any of that should take place and click the Zero Key button for each of the layers I've made, then do the same after the slap to resume the normal walk.
Now if I want to use the DS Timeline a bit, I Bake to Timeline and play around with more changes.
When I'm done I can save a DUF animated pose (I never really do that) or head back into aniMate 2, which has disabled itself when I baked, and create a new aniBlock containing all of the data we've just optimized. I do this before activating the aniMate 2 tracks and before deleting any of the aniBlocks. I do all of that After creating the new aniBlock.
Now with it in an aniBlock, I have the ability to speed it up, mirror it, reverse it, blend it with other aniBlocks, there's a whole lot I can do with it at this point. I might even save the aniBlock and then send it all back to the timeline.
Anyway... I just wanted to point out a few reasons why I keep saying... Yeah! We can aniMate in Daz Studio!
I was happily animating in Carrara more like conventional, traditional animating software techniques. That helped sell the idea (to me) that DS was impossible.
Once I broke out of that mentality, I started discovering just how powerful and fun we have it right inside this killer fricken Figure Creation app. Having those figure creation tools at our fingertips is the magic I demonstrate and teach how to facilitate in my Dynamic Character Animation course.
Now I prefer this over animating any other way!
Even if I'm going to make a totally custom animation, I never have to reinvent the wheel. If the character's walking or sitting or standing around... whatever... I can begin with an aniBlock that's doing that. I use the method I described earlier to get perfectly successful saved aniBlocks from Mixamo downloads. I use Genesis 2 for that - Bone Minion into my prefered generation. Becuase of this workflow, I got the Genesis 2 Pose Bone Minion Bundle, so I can even load my FBX saves onto M4 and V4 if I want - and sometimes I do. I use all generation from that one forward - except for 9.
Anyways, I can begin with a base motion. I might prefer to just do all of my editing (or part of it) using those cool key frame layers that I can blend in and out of, or just bake to the timeline right away, delete the joints I don't want using the aniBlock data, and start key framing by hand - a technique I use a lot of the time. That or using my custom tools to compltely alter the original data - without deleting any of it.
Freaking Fun!!!
If any of this sounds interesting, I have a bunch of workflow writeups and other information about how I love doing this stuff on my site:
https://www.dartanbeck.com/daz-zone/daz-studio/the-power-of-animate-2
Be warned though... this animating stuff can be Highly Addictive!
Some guy already made such a plugin for poser to “pose” AI Characters.
You have to own at least poser 12 ($129) and his plugin ($20) But if you need to create AI poses for commercial purposes this is far far cheaper than a commercial license for openpose for controlnet ( $25,000 annually)
@Dartanbeck
speaking of poser, are you aware there is a FREE python plugin for poser that creates awesome Ragdoll
physics for the default poser native LF & LH
https://bitbucket.org/PhysicalcSoftware/poserphysics/src/master/
You can create unique Ragdoll collisions for lefemm & Lhomme ( in poser12 or higher) and the save animated pose files that work on Daz Mike 3 with can be retarget to genesis one with this free script
https://sites.google.com/site/mcasualsdazscripts5/mcjcopyposeanim
then to G3 and from there up to G9 with bone minon.
I had poser physics when it was a $50 commercial plugin back in the poser 6 days.
The obvious caveat with this free open source version is the $129 cost for poser 12.
but the ragdoll physics are amazing and can't realisticly be created any other way unless you have the old Endorphin physics software (which I still run also )
Pretty darn cool!
Does Cascadeur do ragdoll physics?
I have a pretty cool collection of those sorts of ragdoll motions in aniBlocks. Using the motion spline editor in aniMate 2, I can really alter specifics of the motion, but I still prefer using aniMate's key frame layers for that - being able to blend in and out with ease is awesome. Of course the motion spline editor does too... so I go back and forth.
Also, I'm animating for cinema, not for a gaming stage. So I tend to 'film' just the necessary shots. Example being, when I want to see someone fall flat on their face from an explosion, car crash, whatever... I just set it up and make it happen. It really is that simple.
Much like the opening scene in this, but I have a digital ton of these sorts of falls, blasts and mishaps
No it can not, sadly.
But I already have My dynamic ragdoll solutions with Endorphin and poser physics
But still Cascadeure is a great software for those who wish to learn hand keyed animation and it auto physics for secondary motion is unique.
We have alot of options today compared to years ago
At this point it is just a matter of Eco system preferences really
Right now I prefer the versatility Blender and Maya and not being locked into a particular set of prefabbed figures
and clothings.
I meant the opposite
I know about this product and you can also just use a render in controlnet too with openpose
I meant use an image to create a pose and yeah noncommercial use then obviously, one would need to look into that for the renders
Well you folks just keep figuring that stuff out. I'm just going to keep making motion pictures! ;)