Course on creating skin textures

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Comments

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402
    edited September 23

    yuyu.atem said:

    - I tried to create skin pores with the Cells 1 texture, and I obtained a normal map from it. But from what you explained to me, I thought that I would create a height map, that I should later convert into a normal map... Did I misunderstood? I also got a height map, but it is completly white...

    I never said that. I said you can convert height to normal (if you wanted to, but not that you should)

    Furtheremore, the normal map that I obtain looks a bit strange. I got a blue background and a border of the "useful map" has kind of bright rays:

     

    The projection outwards from edge of map are set by padding value.  You can pad to infinity or pad a set amount. It's fine.

    - And on the base color face map, I can't see any part darker for the nostrill and the ear shape. I already such darker part on existing corlor maps, so I wonder if it is normal here...

    It's completely up to you. If you think it looks okay on your rendered character in Daz then it is okay, if you think it needs to be darker, darken it.  

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402

    Also, by the way, you screenshotted your templates list but didnt show the template you had selected under 'Output Template'

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  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402

    16bit PNG is usually only standard for Normal maps.

    8bit image (e.g., JPG) is more standard for other types of maps.

    16bit will cost more VRAM for rendering.

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  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 292

    Thank you very much! laugh 

    lilweep said:

    Maybe you are aware of this, but exporting Eyes and Mouth from Daz and importing these into your project is a waste of time. Better to do focus just on skin in one project.

    Do you mean that I should import the mesh whith only the body itself, without the eye and the mouth? Since I didn't wanted to work on them, I first imported the mesh to Blender, and i created a new material (that I called "skin") contianing only the part of the body that have actually a skin... Maybe there would be simpler to do?

     

    I never said that. I said you can convert height to normal (if you wanted to, but not that you should)

    Ah, ok, I misunderstood.

     The projection outwards from edge of map are set by padding value.  You can pad to infinity or pad a set amount. It's fine.

    I tried other padding but I got other weird results. Do you mean I should change the nuber on the right-hand of the padding section?

    Also, by the way, you screenshotted your templates list but didnt show the template you had selected under 'Output Template'

    Ah ok, I didn't understood! Here is what I have in the PBR Metallic Roughness section:

     

    I have another question about the Cavity Texture of the tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0DhvFML7oM). I created the Curvature generator as shown in the tutorial, but nothing happen, I can't see any effect on the material. I first thoght that is was because I used a Substance Paiter texture instead of an actual map to obtain the skin pores, so I insterted the G8M default bump maps on my charater, but I still can't see any effect of the curvature generator. Could you help me, please?

       

       

    I made a short video showing what happens when I hide and unhide the curvature generator, and we can see that nothong happen...

    https://workupload.com/file/5ucmTQkYsry

    Thank you in advance!

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402

    yuyu.atem said:

    Do you mean that I should import the mesh whith only the body itself, without the eye and the mouth? Since I didn't wanted to work on them, I first imported the mesh to Blender, and i created a new material (that I called "skin") contianing only the part of the body that have actually a skin... Maybe there would be simpler to do?

    Yes that is what I mean. Just export figure without any attachments. 

    It is not the end of the world if you have them, Im just saying you dont need them.

    I dont understand the point of going to blender for that. Without attachments, you can just export obj without Surfaces from Daz and everything will be on appropriate UDIM.

     

    I tried other padding but I got other weird results. Do you mean I should change the nuber on the right-hand of the padding section?

    I never said it needed to be changed. I said it looked fine.

    If you want to change it, those padding options in your screenshot are how you can change it.

     

    Also, by the way, you screenshotted your templates list but didnt show the template you had selected under 'Output Template'

    Ah ok, I didn't understood! Here is what I have in the PBR Metallic Roughness section:

     

    You have a Normal DirectX Converted Map plugged into your Normal Map.  Daz Studio uses OpenGL normal maps, so you should not be using a template with DirectX as ouput set up.  Your next question is going to be what to do next but honestly im not fully sure. I usually just use either the Normal channel or the Normal OpenGL in the Normal slot.  Just see which one gives you proper result.

     

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  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402
    edited September 26

    You dont need to export metallic and emissive for skin.  Did you even use those channels when texturing?

    I would recommend setting up your own template and get the channels/maps you want exported instead of choosing some random default template for exporting maps. I assume you are going to come back with 100 questions about how to set up a template and so on and so forth so i should probably say now that it is too much effort to explain so you should read or watch tutorial on how to do because it is a bit technical.  If it was me, I would just use basic logical inferences to imitate the templates that exist when making my own.

     

    Also you probably dont need 16bit png for a hieght map unless it is being used as displacement map, but up to you i guess.

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    Post edited by lilweep on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402
    edited September 27

    yuyu.atem said:

     

     

    I have another question about the Cavity Texture of the tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0DhvFML7oM). I created the Curvature generator as shown in the tutorial, but nothing happen, I can't see any effect on the material. I first thoght that is was because I used a Substance Paiter texture instead of an actual map to obtain the skin pores, so I insterted the G8M default bump maps on my charater, but I still can't see any effect of the curvature generator. Could you help me, please?

    Im not watching an hour long video that isnt time stamped to the relevant seciton.

     

    mesh maps are usually baked from highpoly models, and generators often use mesh maps.

    Did you bake mesh maps from a high poly model? Probably not.

    Do your baked mesh maps have any intersting details that could be used by a generator? Probably not.

    Therefore, whatever part of that tutorial which is relevant (didnt watch it) would not apply.

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • RexRedRexRed Posts: 1,301
    edited September 26

    I think Daz Original artists make the best Gen 9 skin. How they do it? They might not be at liberty to say.

    I wish Daz Original artists would make tutorials but then they might not have time to make us such great products.

    Post edited by RexRed on
  • RexRedRexRed Posts: 1,301
    edited September 26

    Just a hunch but I think the best skin may come from real photos. I also assume these real photos of someone's skin cost a lot to buy the rights to and they are tedious to apply to UVs.

    My advice is to learn the best way to make skin (whatever that is) and not just any way.

    There are a lot of skins out there that do not come up to good standards.

    I assume that real samples eclipse something that is synthesized when it comes to "photo realism".

    Post edited by RexRed on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402

    RexRed said:

    Just a hunch but I think the best skin may come from real photos. I also assume these real photos of someone's skin cost a lot to buy the rights

    this is probably true if you want commercial rights to use on a daz charaacter which they may see as simply reselling their product. you would have to discuss with purveyor of said scans

    to and they are tedious to apply to UVs.

    this is not  at all true, it is trivial to move between UVs with something like faceform

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402
    edited September 26

    RexRed said:

    I think Daz Original artists make the best Gen 9 skin. How they do it? 

    you dont have to restrict your sights to daz skins. There's nothing special about daz figures that would mean any generic character creation tutorial aimed at other industry professionals or hobbyists could not be repurposed for daz figures.

    Also, the makers of Michael 8.1 and Victoria 8.1 wrote a blog post on daz3d.com about their methods and it was just fairly generic using texturingxyz scans etc.

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • RexRedRexRed Posts: 1,301

    lilweep said:

    to and they are tedious to apply to UVs.

    this is not  at all true, it is trivial to move between UVs with something like faceform

    I have never done it before but doing behind and inside ears did not look easy and matching seams between different photos also seemed like it was not that easy.

    But I am not talking from experience. If it can be done within a couple days work than that is actually very easy.  

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402
    edited September 26

    RexRed said:

    lilweep said:

    to and they are tedious to apply to UVs.

    this is not  at all true, it is trivial to move between UVs with something like faceform

    I have never done it before but doing behind and inside ears did not look easy and matching seams between different photos also seemed like it was not that easy.

    But I am not talking from experience. If it can be done within a couple days work than that is actually very easy.  

    You could wrap a full body scan in like 15 minutes with faceform. And it doesnt require any skill.

    What you are clearly talking about is doing a more manual photo projection of head, ears, etc, with something like Substance Painter's projection.  I feel like hand and feet would be much more annoying than the face and ears when doing projection.  This would obviously take much longer than wrapping + texture transfer and require much more skill.

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 292

    Thank you very much for all your answers, I will look at it! laugh

    By the way, I have noticed that there is a cheaper version of Zbrush called Zbrush core (https://www.maxon.net/en/zbrushcore?srsltid=AfmBOoo3P1MtgqVXrCuRATmqNeO1l5aEGJZSDjjQIIS8-k2Xc4JgycL3). Do you know if it has tool to create high resolution character and skin as Zbrush has? Or if it is possible to export the Skin Detail Ressource alphas (https://www.daz3d.com/skin-detail-resource-4) into it to scumpt a character with them?

    I  recently downloaded Zbrush core mini, which is free, to see how it works, and I searched for how to import alphas into it, but I have the impression that it is not possible to import any brush or alpa into Zbrush core mini...

    lilweep said:

    Im not watching an hour long video that isnt time stamped to the relevant seciton.

    Oh, sorry, I forgot to give you the time, it starts around 24:05. It is the "Cavity Textures" section, the title of the sections is visible on the vidoe...

    mesh maps are usually baked from highpoly models, and generators often use mesh maps.

    Did you bake mesh maps from a high poly model? Probably not.

    For now, I used the G8M default bump map. I thought that if I could not succeed to create cavity textures from an existing map, I couldn't succeed to do it from any baked map too, so I used the G8M bump map as training... Further, I have not the impression that there are more particular details on the tutorial character map than on the G8M bump map, and the effect of the generator is completlty visible on the tutorial...

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402

    yuyu.atem said:

    Thank you very much for all your answers, I will look at it! laugh

    By the way, I have noticed that there is a cheaper version of Zbrush called Zbrush core (https://www.maxon.net/en/zbrushcore?srsltid=AfmBOoo3P1MtgqVXrCuRATmqNeO1l5aEGJZSDjjQIIS8-k2Xc4JgycL3). Do you know if it has tool to create high resolution character and skin as Zbrush has? Or if it is possible to export the Skin Detail Ressource alphas (https://www.daz3d.com/skin-detail-resource-4) into it to scumpt a character with them?

    I dont know, but Blender is free, so...

    Oh, sorry, I forgot to give you the time, it starts around 24:05. It is the "Cavity Textures" section, the title of the sections is visible on the vidoe...

    Okay, well i dont need to watch the video to know that what you are trying to do wont work.  Substance painter isnt psychic, it cant magically create detail in a baked mesh map that isnt on the low res or high res sculpt.  I assume he would be baking a mesh map from a high res sculpt onto a texture, i.e., he is taking all the high resolution detail like pores which were sculpted, and putting that into a texture so it can be used on the low res model.  I feel like ive said this a few times already.

    For now, I used the G8M default bump map. I thought that if I could not succeed to create cavity textures from an existing map, I couldn't succeed to do it from any baked map too, so I used the G8M bump map as training... Further, I have not the impression that there are more particular details on the tutorial character map than on the G8M bump map, and the effect of the generator is completlty visible on the tutorial...

    So you are using G8M bump in place of a baked cavity map for the generator?  If you think that is working, then you can proceed, just recognise G8M maps arent merchant resource. And im curious at what point are you going to just be recreating the G8M maps in the most roundabout way possible.

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 292
    edited September 28

    Thank you very much! I think I don't understand well yet. By dint of searching, I realized that I had no image imput in the curvature generator: I inserted the bump maps by dragging them to the mesh. I did that much before to create the genertor, I didn't understand that I had to add them in the image imputs section.

    Now, I inserted the G8M bump map in the Curvature image imput, and I can see an effect, but I is very slight.Further, I don't understand how to use the other image imputs.

    In the tutorial, it looks like everything happen automatically, I can't see the user insert the maps in the image imput section, so I don't understand why it is not automatic for me...

    Further, probably I misunderstood how it works, but on the tutorial, we cas see that deep parts of the body, like nostrills, become dark when the curvature generator is activated. Does it mean that these parts were explicitely visible on his maps? Why do these parts not react to the generator on on my character? He are notrill too...

    Thank you on advance.

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,402

    yuyu.atem said:

    Thank you very much! I think I don't understand well yet. By dint of searching, I realized that I had no image imput in the curvature generator: I inserted the bump maps by dragging them to the mesh. I did that much before to create the genertor, I didn't understand that I had to add them in the image imputs section.

    Now, I inserted the G8M bump map in the Curvature image imput, and I can see an effect, but I is very slight.Further, I don't understand how to use the other image imputs.

    In the tutorial, it looks like everything happen automatically, I can't see the user insert the maps in the image imput section, so I don't understand why it is not automatic for me...

    Further, probably I misunderstood how it works, but on the tutorial, we cas see that deep parts of the body, like nostrills, become dark when the curvature generator is activated. Does it mean that these parts were explicitely visible on his maps? Why do these parts not react to the generator on on my character? He are notrill too...

    Thank you on advance.

    Clearly there is some misunderstanding taking place.  

    Those maps are all autopopulated with mesh maps once you bake mesh maps. Generators often use mesh maps.

    Early in the video he baked mesh maps. Dont you remember?

    There is a section in Substance Painter called Bake Mesh Maps, where it can create all those maps like World Space NOrmals and Curvature maps etc automatically. Usually you do this first thing after creating your project.  I recall when watching that video earlier, it was one of the first things he did.  It is usally done with a highpoly highly detailed sculpt. But you can do them without a highres sculpt but there just isnt much point.

     Of course, you can bring external resources like bump maps into your project and plug those into the generator slots. You can do anything you want.

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