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Linday appreciation

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  • ThyranqThyranq Posts: 584
    edited January 2020

    One more before I huffs off to bed (Side Layered Messy Hair):

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  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,727
    edited January 2020

    Hi Linda and Richard. Hairwise, I like the dForce cloth engine and my only concern with any model is memory consumption. Keep up the fun work!

    Heres some more fun using Classic Long Hair with dForce for Genesis 8 Female(s), Classic Denim Jumpsuit for Genesis 3 Female(s), and Bad Girls Textures for Genesis 3 Female(s) Super Bodysuit.

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  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,717

    There are some amazing images posted so far (caused me to add a few more items to my wishlist)! I thought I'd add a couple more images, but they definitely are not up to the standards of images already posted!

    I hadn't purchased anything from Linday until I got the Sci-Fi Pilot Outfit for Genesis 8 Female(s) almost a year ago. To say I was impressed would be putting it mildly!! I now only have 3 items from Linday (just got dForce Wet and Dry Dark Fantasy Outfit for Genesis 8 Female(s)), but have several more on my wishlist.

    Like others have said, the dynamic hair from Linday is great!! I only have Classic Long Curly Hair but wow, it's amazing. I was reluctant to buy it, thinking it would have serious problems draping properly, but I kept seeing renders with it and finally just had to get it. It has exceded all expectations.

    The first image below used Classic Long Curly Hair. It was kind of a stress test, to see if it would drape into the proper position, and it did!!

    The second image used Sci-Fi Pilot.

     

  • hfilbhfilb Posts: 63
    edited January 2020

    I'm constantly sad that there aren't many curly hair options, so it goes without saying that the Classic Long Curly Hair is my favorite one. I hope one day we'll see a short hair version that's well optimized.

    Also big thanks for continuing to use the dForce Cloth for the simulations. The new Wavy Hair simulates very quickly and looks awesome with those geoshell tricks. SBH has it's uses, but it's too much of a memory hog and can't be exported without a supercomputer :/ 

    Post edited by hfilb on
  • ChadCryptoChadCrypto Posts: 596

    Linday products are very awesome. I have many of the hair and clothes.  Very high qaulity.

    Thanks Linda And Richard for the exceptional product line. Look forward to the future additions.

     

  • LindayLinday Posts: 86

    Wow, thank you for your great artworks, we are always happy that you can work with our products and have fun ( we're always looking at pictures in gallery...)

    Thanks for your feedback too, we rarely get to know customers opinion...it looks like a lot of times we want to do the same things, we just sometimes cannot find a way how at that time. That doesn't mean that we'll stop trying, though...

    We are not quoting everyone here, but be sure that we've read everything ( ponytail, bang options, too shiny...) and we are thinking about it.

    alex86fire said:

     

     

    I am pretty new to Daz so I don't know if this is strictly possible but if it is I would love to see some form of rigged hair. A hair that I could pose with controls just like I pose body parts. I don't know why there isn't such a product yet, maybe it is not possible from a technical point of view.

     

    We've tried to make it, but with hair as  Classic Long Wavy Hair or Bang Bob Hair it seems impossible so far, cause there are too many hair layers and strands are too close to each other. We were experimenting with rigging when we were making Side Layered Hair, results were worse than with morphs, though. It is something we'd like to do, just searching for the right hairstyle...

    Thyranq said:
    Linday said:

    My only complaint with any of the hairs I've purchased is that sometimes, depending on the pose, it's hard to get the hair to stay out of the character's face without completely draping it behind the shoulders.

    I noticed in another dforce hair product that I picke up from PhilW during the weekend sale that there's face shields included to prevent this - maybe something like that could be incorporated?

    We were experimenting with face shield when we were making the first dForce hair, but there were issues with hair strands sticking to the shield and it was deforming hairstyle. It seemed better and faster to select hair strands in geometry editor tool and hide unwanted ones.

     

    Thyranq said:
    richardandtracy_e725004c1a said:

    SLMH seems a bit slow on my machine too. About 10-15 mins for a simulation. Could be worse, but it's good to hear it's a relatively slow one. Anyway, I'm slowly getting to learn how to use SLMH and I rather like many of the results. It's my only Linday product, but probably won't be the last.

     

    Yeah, we've tried to shorten simulation time in Classic Long Wavy Hair with less amount of hair strands and make volume with geoshells. Simulation time is approx. 50% shorter than in SLMH ( depending on with how many objects it collides). Always be sure that brows and eyelashes are switched off in viewport, especially fiber brows can make simulation time two times slower.

     

  • PsychoNautPsychoNaut Posts: 63
    edited January 2020

    Fully agreed!

    My OC Candy loves a trip to Linday's Salon:

    Post edited by PsychoNaut on
  • ThyranqThyranq Posts: 584
    Linday said:

    Wow, thank you for your great artworks, we are always happy that you can work with our products and have fun ( we're always looking at pictures in gallery...)

    Thanks for your feedback too, we rarely get to know customers opinion...it looks like a lot of times we want to do the same things, we just sometimes cannot find a way how at that time. That doesn't mean that we'll stop trying, though...

    We are not quoting everyone here, but be sure that we've read everything ( ponytail, bang options, too shiny...) and we are thinking about it.

    alex86fire said:

     

     

    I am pretty new to Daz so I don't know if this is strictly possible but if it is I would love to see some form of rigged hair. A hair that I could pose with controls just like I pose body parts. I don't know why there isn't such a product yet, maybe it is not possible from a technical point of view.

     

    We've tried to make it, but with hair as  Classic Long Wavy Hair or Bang Bob Hair it seems impossible so far, cause there are too many hair layers and strands are too close to each other. We were experimenting with rigging when we were making Side Layered Hair, results were worse than with morphs, though. It is something we'd like to do, just searching for the right hairstyle...

    Thyranq said:
    Linday said:

    My only complaint with any of the hairs I've purchased is that sometimes, depending on the pose, it's hard to get the hair to stay out of the character's face without completely draping it behind the shoulders.

    I noticed in another dforce hair product that I picke up from PhilW during the weekend sale that there's face shields included to prevent this - maybe something like that could be incorporated?

    We were experimenting with face shield when we were making the first dForce hair, but there were issues with hair strands sticking to the shield and it was deforming hairstyle. It seemed better and faster to select hair strands in geometry editor tool and hide unwanted ones.

     

    Thyranq said:
    richardandtracy_e725004c1a said:

    SLMH seems a bit slow on my machine too. About 10-15 mins for a simulation. Could be worse, but it's good to hear it's a relatively slow one. Anyway, I'm slowly getting to learn how to use SLMH and I rather like many of the results. It's my only Linday product, but probably won't be the last.

     

    Yeah, we've tried to shorten simulation time in Classic Long Wavy Hair with less amount of hair strands and make volume with geoshells. Simulation time is approx. 50% shorter than in SLMH ( depending on with how many objects it collides). Always be sure that brows and eyelashes are switched off in viewport, especially fiber brows can make simulation time two times slower.

     

    Thanks a lot! Really love how much you guys are into feedback, and listening, and pushing the envelope - keep it up!

     

    And whatever sorcery you've worked out for improving draping times is certainly a step in the right direction.

    Side Layered Messy hair is probably my favourite hair ever, and my first dforce hair - takes a LONG time to drape (results are worth it though)

    I picked up the classic wavy hair the first day it was out, and wow does that ever drape faster!

    Even the curly hair I snagged up yesterday, I found that to drape prettty quickly for what it was. Awesome job - keep it up!

     

    Good tip about the eyebrows, too. I always forget to turn those off (too many years working with painted ones to remember that they're an actual geometry now I guess lol)

     

    Thanks again for listening to us, for checking out our images, and for the excellent products! Cheers!

  • MelissaGTMelissaGT Posts: 2,611

    I'd just like to reiterate how much I love the continued work with the cloth draping system...it seems to move and flow way more naturally than any strand-based hair I've seen. I hope you continue to use it rather than switch to working exclusively with strand-based hair. And that includes my massive wish of seeing some new mane/tail/feather add-ons for DH2. And as some others have mentioned...up-do's, up-do's, up-do's and braids, braids, braids! Most of my work is with warrior women, and I'd love love love to see something that suits them rather than runway hair. Like something from Vikings would be just wow. 

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    I don't buy the cloth system hairs now.

    The look for me on strand-based hair is more natural. I've returned a dforce hair product that just didn't seem to look as good as the others (not a Linday one), so wondering what it was about that one.

    The mesh-based hair can look flat of have sharp/thin sections that are at odds with the apparent quantity of hair on the plain. Sure strands of hair are thin, but when seen together from any angle they don't have theat flat plain thinness (infinite thinness).

     

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    edited January 2020
    FSMCDesigns said:
    richardandtracy_e725004c1a said:

    SLMH seems a bit slow on my machine too. About 10-15 mins for a simulation. Could be worse, but it's good to hear it's a relatively slow one. Anyway, I'm slowly getting to learn how to use SLMH and I rather like many of the results. It's my only Linday product, but probably won't be the last.

    yeah, these hairs are kinda heavy on resources, but he end result is worth it IMO

    Funny, lots of my image involve bodies laying down or in non standing poses, so i need hair that will drape realistically. I purchased a dforce strand based hair from PhilW to check out the tech to see how it would work and look compared to these types of hairs. It works great, drapes well and takes less reources, so i was hoping Lindey would make some hair using this method. Well she has, but so far i haven't liked the styles and I am waiting for more offerings from her.

    (For those interested the shape is Layla 100% elf ears separate dial and about 40% josie; trying to get a willowy/tall skinny elf that doesn't look like a teen - not easy. Tamasis V4 for the textures. I'm not sure why an elf would be wearing a bikini, unless its some weird elven armour, or running through the trees with long flowing hair, which can catch on every twig for miles around.)

    Yes, I too like PhilW's hairs - and they do simulate very quickly and usually without any poke-through issues.

    The virgin hair style suggests beauty salon (at least to me), so one might think its limited in its useage. Tweaking settings, however, allows the style to remain to various extents.

    Heavily tweaked the settings in the first image and made it slightly shorter. Ear interraction not too bad. It would be helpful if morphs better lifted the hair up, although I expect that affect the desired style.

    Same tweaks on the dforce hair settings as previous image but longer hair; turned dforce setting to Better not Best, gravity at 1 for the left image and to 2 for the right.

    Pretty much default settings for the third image; I adjusted the morphs to match the other hair, and scaled it, which is the easiest (when it works) way of increasing the length; it doesn't work that well here, until the gravity is changed. (An alternative method of making the hair longer is turn on allow negative values on the shorter morph; this affects the hair differently than just scaling.) The gravity was 3.5 (Linday's default if that setting is applied by the user) for the left image, but set to 15 for the right.

    Stabilisation Time and Start Bones from Memorised Pose may need adjusting, depeing on circumstances.

    FSMCDesigns said:
    nicstt said:

    I like Linday's dforce (cloth) hair, but was interested to see what they made of strand-based hair, and have both their products; I like them a lot. I pretty much only used strand-based hair now - unless I need a style they can't accommodate.

    The virgin hair is great, but can take a while to sim; but changing the gravity and tweaking other settings can give some great variation within the constraints of the style.

    Hoping Linday does more strand-based dforce hair - with the emphasis on strand-based.

     

    good to know. Do you have any renders showing how it drapes in non standing positions?

     

    Not at the moment, but I did some images showing important body interraction with the torso and an arm.

    I find that once I've got the look I want for the hair, then the only thing I need to change (as a rule) depending on pose: is gravity, the amoung of stabilisation time, better simulation or best. I tend to prefer better purely because of speed, but sometimes, best it has to be.

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  • SummerhorseSummerhorse Posts: 684
    edited January 2020

    I second melissastjames in requesting braids! Anything with decent braids. None of the braided hairs in the store stand up to the realism of the models we have now in anything even close to a closeup without tons of post work.

    Oh, and I especially love your work on the horses coats!

    Post edited by Summerhorse on
  • Alley RatAlley Rat Posts: 390

    The M-65 Field Jacket is my absolute favorite piece of clothing on the site, from any generation.

  • MelissaGTMelissaGT Posts: 2,611
    edited January 2020
    Summerhorse said:

    I second melissastjames in requesting braids! Anything with decent braids. None of the braided hairs in the store stand up to the realism of the models we have now in anything even close to a closeup without tons of post work.

    I would go nuts if I finally was able to buy something that Lagertha would wear on Vikings. You're right...none of the braided styles available work for me, and most of them are "pig tail" braids, which don't really fit with seasoned warrior women. It's hard being someone who is into dirty, strong, scarred, fully clothed and armored medieval fantasy women who can fight right next to their men in a sea of folks who prefer soft, manicured glamazons who can miraculously fight in stilletos without cracking an ankle. (Good on them...I can't even walk down my driveway in heels.) I get it...people make what sells...and assets aimed at tripping the trolleys of giggity guys is what sells. 

    Post edited by MelissaGT on
  • LindayLinday Posts: 86
    edited January 2020

    Nicstt: It looks that you are working with new dForce system a lot.

    We were experimenting with dynamics parameter settings too, overall hairstyle looked just fine, but when we didn't want to have hair layers visibly crossing each other ( it is unacceptable for us as vendors to have top hair layers submerged under hair layers that are below , it looks unnatural)  Strand based hair ( new dForce hair system) is more complicated in setting dynamics itself and the results tend to be less predictable, especially with long hairstyles. For shorter hairstyles and fur it is a good option, though. With Cloth engine it is not an issue and it looks like people are more used to cloth engine by now and know how to work with it. New dForce hair system is relatively new for all of us and perhaps we need to have more experiences.

     

    Strange Voyager said:

    The M-65 Field Jacket is my absolute favorite piece of clothing on the site, from any generation.

    To make better remake of M-65 Field Jacket and with dForce is Richard's dream, but for now, we are working on other products...

    Summerhorse said:

    I second melissastjames in requesting braids! Anything with decent braids. None of the braided hairs in the store stand up to the realism of the models we have now in anything even close to a closeup without tons of post work.

    Oh, and I especially love your work on the horses coats!

    And oooh, good looking dynamic braids/warrior braids...it's really a chalenge...we like it.

    Post edited by Linday on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    edited January 2020

    I am, and it takes time to figure out what (and how) a hair can do what I want.

    I created canvases and tweaked them slightly, getting more the look i wanted; incidentally, because I did, I was able to increase the DOF effect without re-rendering (2.5hours on a 980ti, and just over 3 for a threadripper), for anyone reading this: an excellent reason to learn canvases.

    I'm not exactly happy with either, but happy enough to post - with my 'name' on it. frown I'm almost inclined to say I prefer the first, but still feel it needs a stray lock.

    V1 almost default hair, with just a few strays; V3 added a slection of strays, but felt there was too many so reduced them by careful editting using V1. Those strays are really too long though - so perhaps I'll re-render.

    ... Love the hair though.

     

     

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  • maikdeckermaikdecker Posts: 2,750
    Linday said:
    We were experimenting with dynamics parameter settings too, overall hairstyle looked just fine, but when we didn't want to have hair layers visibly crossing each other ( it is unacceptable for us as vendors to have top hair layers submerged under hair layers that are below , it looks unnatural)  Strand based hair ( new dForce hair system) is more complicated in setting dynamics itself and the results tend to be less predictable, especially with long hairstyles. For shorter hairstyles and fur it is a good option, though. With Cloth engine it is not an issue and it looks like people are more used to cloth engine by now and know how to work with it. New dForce hair system is relatively new for all of us and perhaps we need to have more experiences.
     

    For me as a customer, the look of many pure dForce hairstyles looks a lot more unrealistic than the better cloth dForced hairstyles (= yours, mostly ^^)

    But that's probably because of personal taste and me being a special snowflake once again wink

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    maikdecker said:
    Linday said:
    We were experimenting with dynamics parameter settings too, overall hairstyle looked just fine, but when we didn't want to have hair layers visibly crossing each other ( it is unacceptable for us as vendors to have top hair layers submerged under hair layers that are below , it looks unnatural)  Strand based hair ( new dForce hair system) is more complicated in setting dynamics itself and the results tend to be less predictable, especially with long hairstyles. For shorter hairstyles and fur it is a good option, though. With Cloth engine it is not an issue and it looks like people are more used to cloth engine by now and know how to work with it. New dForce hair system is relatively new for all of us and perhaps we need to have more experiences.
     

    For me as a customer, the look of many pure dForce hairstyles looks a lot more unrealistic than the better cloth dForced hairstyles (= yours, mostly ^^)

    But that's probably because of personal taste and me being a special snowflake once again wink

    I agree it's a matter of personal taste… And my taste aligns with yours.

    I have passed on every single dForce Hair released* because they all remind me of the coarse hair on the dolls I owned as child, some 50+ years ago. Nothing against the PAs. I just think dForce Hair isn't quite there yet. If Daz continues to evolve the dForce Hair engine, that should change, but in the meantime, I prefer the dForce Cloth hair from PAs like Linday over "dHair". (*Though I recently picked up the Lagoon Bundle, without realizing the hair was dHair, so that says a lot for Linday's efforts.)

    Here's the Daz TOS compliant version of an image I did in 2018 with the Short Wet Hair for G8M/G8F:

    Summer's Fae

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    edited January 2020
    As Linday mentioned, there is the thing with hair layers. Especially long hair only looks good if it's layered, like real hair is, otherwise hair looks just very flat. With the current SBH editor, layers are incredibly difficult to create because while you model the hair groups you can't see how the layers will interact with each other. It adds to the frustration that in order to create realistic hair you need to use the clump feature but since you can't modify the strands directly ...

    I'm not sure whether the PAs use the same SBH editor that we common users do or if they have some kind of advanced version. If it's the same, then they have the same problems. Don't get me wrong, it's possible to create very realistic hair with the SBH editor. PAs have done it, and given enough time and dedication, non-PAs too. I just feel the workflow is unnecessary difficult, and it involves a lot of trial and error to achieve the desired result. I would totally understand that this is an issue for PAs too and not only for common users. At least for product creation it can be painful if the workflow is more complicated than maybe necessary.

    Post edited by Asari on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Asari said:
    As Linday mentioned, there is the thing with hair layers. Especially long hair only looks good if it's layered, like real hair is, otherwise hair looks just very flat. With the current SBH editor, layers are incredibly difficult to create because while you model the hair groups you can't see how the layers will interact with each other. It adds to the frustration that in order to create realistic hair you need to use the clump feature but since you can't modify the strands directly ...

     

    I'm not sure whether the PAs use the same SBH editor that we common users do or if they have some kind of advanced version. If it's the same, then they have the same problems. Don't get me wrong, it's possible to create very realistic hair with the SBH editor. PAs have done it, and given enough time and dedication, non-PAs too. I just feel the workflow is unnecessary difficult, and it involves a lot of trial and error to achieve the desired result. I would totally understand that this is an issue for PAs too and not only for common users. At least for product creation it can be painful if the workflow is more complicated than maybe necessary.

    I may have misunderstood what I've read since it was released, but it's my understanding, the dForce Hair modifier can be applied to any stranded hair, such as the fiber mesh hair created by various modeling programs. PAs that were already creating fiber hair before dForce Hair was released would most likely continue with the program they were good at.

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    L'Adair said:
    Asari said:
    As Linday mentioned, there is the thing with hair layers. Especially long hair only looks good if it's layered, like real hair is, otherwise hair looks just very flat. With the current SBH editor, layers are incredibly difficult to create because while you model the hair groups you can't see how the layers will interact with each other. It adds to the frustration that in order to create realistic hair you need to use the clump feature but since you can't modify the strands directly ...

     

    I'm not sure whether the PAs use the same SBH editor that we common users do or if they have some kind of advanced version. If it's the same, then they have the same problems. Don't get me wrong, it's possible to create very realistic hair with the SBH editor. PAs have done it, and given enough time and dedication, non-PAs too. I just feel the workflow is unnecessary difficult, and it involves a lot of trial and error to achieve the desired result. I would totally understand that this is an issue for PAs too and not only for common users. At least for product creation it can be painful if the workflow is more complicated than maybe necessary.

    I may have misunderstood what I've read since it was released, but it's my understanding, the dForce Hair modifier can be applied to any stranded hair, such as the fiber mesh hair created by various modeling programs. PAs that were already creating fiber hair before dForce Hair was released would most likely continue with the program they were good at.

    Good to know, thank you for the info. The more PA use the SBH editor, the higher the priority on improving it would be. Let's see what the future will bring.

    The difficulties I described are coming up with long human head hair. I've never attempted creature for or shorter head hair so the difficulties with those might be elsewhere ... or not such an issue. Every type of hair has it's own workflow.

  • ARTCollabARTCollab Posts: 101
    edited January 2020

    I will happily join the Linday appreciation society LOL I use the Curly hair ALOT. Like Alot alot LOL I will agree on what some said about shineyness (its sometimes a bit overpowered on some of the hairs) but Ive managed to sort how to adjust that so its not really a big deal. I will say that overall they are definitely my favorite hair creator. I've use them in almost every one of my renders. I actually really liked the one strand based hair as well (dForce Side Bob) once I figured out how to use it (I admit that took me a bit to figure out as I was used to the dForced hair)

    Here's a couple of my renders:





    Anytime I see a hair release by you, I tend to snatch it right up heart

    Post edited by ARTCollab on
  • GoggerGogger Posts: 2,375
    edited January 2020

    I absolutely LOVE Linday products!  Here's a recent render I did with Linday hair.


     

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  • frankrblowfrankrblow Posts: 2,052
    edited January 2020

    Hair used on older G8: https://www.daz3d.com/side-layered-messy-hair-with-dforce-for-genesis-8-females

     

    Post edited by frankrblow on
  • LindayLinday Posts: 86

    Wow, these renders are awesome and we're once again really glad that you like the products. To actually see how you work with them is so inspiring!

     

    nicstt said:

    I am, and it takes time to figure out what (and how) a hair can do what I want.

    If our graphic card could talk... this was our first dForce hair product and it's been a looong process to figure at least few things out right. So we totally get that you are trying to get the right look for your renders. yes

    Thanks for sharing your opinions on hair systems and hair in general.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,153
    nicstt said:

    I don't buy the cloth system hairs now.

    The look for me on strand-based hair is more natural. I've returned a dforce hair product that just didn't seem to look as good as the others (not a Linday one), so wondering what it was about that one.

    The mesh-based hair can look flat of have sharp/thin sections that are at odds with the apparent quantity of hair on the plain. Sure strands of hair are thin, but when seen together from any angle they don't have theat flat plain thinness (infinite thinness).

     

    I guess I'm the only one then that thinks dforce strand hair looks absolutely awful. There's no thinness toward the bottom of the hair - it just cuts straight off in an unnatural looking way. It just looks WRONG. I'll stick with dforce cloth hair and regular old transmapped hair for now until dforce strand improves.

    Laurie

  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,727
    AllenArt said:

    I guess I'm the only one then that thinks dforce strand hair looks absolutely awful. There's no thinness toward the bottom of the hair - it just cuts straight off in an unnatural looking way. It just looks WRONG. I'll stick with dforce cloth hair and regular old transmapped hair for now until dforce strand improves.

    Laurie

    I feel the same way. Yarn hair.

  • cimenroller2cimenroller2 Posts: 76
    AllenArt said:
    nicstt said:

     

    I guess I'm the only one then that thinks dforce strand hair looks absolutely awful. There's no thinness toward the bottom of the hair - it just cuts straight off in an unnatural looking way. It just looks WRONG. I'll stick with dforce cloth hair and regular old transmapped hair for now until dforce strand improves.

     

    Agreed! I can't use it properly

  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    To my eyes SBH looks better depending on hairstyle and taste but I agree nonetheless with @AllenArt that the tips of SBH are generally not so good looking. It's very difficult to create realistic looking hair strands that taper correctly towards the tip. When I look at all the hairs the PAs released it seems to me I'm not alone with this issue.

    On my own renders I tackle this issue with postwork. But that's not a solution. I'm curious to see future hairstyles and what improvements they make in this area.

  • richardandtracyrichardandtracy Posts: 5,531

    I have one SBH (https://www.daz3d.com/sonia-hair-for-genesis-3-and-genesis-8-female-s) & think the hair looks rather coarse. Not sure if it's typical, but the other ones I've seen look similar. The fabric dForce at the moment seem to look better to me.

    However, SBH is a new tech & I'm willing to keep my mind open about it until it matures in a few years.

    Regards,

    Richard.

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