Non-photorealistic Renders (NPR)

mmitchell_houston

I decided to update a few illustrations for the Gutshot Rule Book. I decided to try two approaches. The first one is my standard "noir" style, and the second is the basketweave effect. 

Both images were created in Poser 11 with clean-up in Photoshop.

Image 1 -- Finishes in Manga Studio 5 EX (aka Clip Studio Paint).
Image 2 -- Basketweave effect created by India Ink plug-in.

Any opinions on which you like better?

david_macrae

@mmitchell_houston Definitely the first.  It looks better. Cleaner and like you said your classic style!

tkdrobert

jakiblue said:

I had a play with PhotoDonut the other day - I think @divamakeup mentioned it so I thought I'd give it a try. This was my first attempt. Click for full view. 

Original:

Photodonut:

 

 

 

I found out about it the same way.  It's a cool program.  I played with it a bit, but I haven't come close to unlocking it's potential yet.  I've been too busy.  I need to see if there is a good tutorial.

tkdrobert

jakiblue said:

oh Head Wax! how did you do the Phantom costume??? My hubby is a massive Phantom fan and I've always wanted to do one for him, but I can't get the Phantom costume right!! 

head wax said:

This is on the famous Nobbys break wall that surrounds our City's harbour entrance. The Red thing is a local icon and ships' beacon.

I left space for Text top left but refrained.

Carrara Job. Filter Forge filters ad infinitum

Any suggestions on Phantom Comic cover text welcome (not the title The Phantom- I'v sorted that one :) )

 

 

 

There was an old cartoon called Defenders of the Earth.  It only ran for 1 season.  Flash Gordon and the Phantom were on the team.  I just discovered it's on Amazon Prime.

algovincian

Atanacius said:

@algovincian : Is this a product you'll releasing at shop soon as a Shader (Iray/3Delight ?) for we can play with ? I ask that due to your render presented from the Monique 8 thread from I came linked to this thread of yours :D

In short, unfortunately no. It's a 2 step process:

1. The scene is analyzed in DS, a series of new shaders is dynamically applied and parameters set, and the analysis passes are rendered out

2. The output is sent to algorithms outside of DS and the info is used to govern the decisions made (strokes that are made by fractal algorithms, etc.)

The second part includes complex neural networks that run on a distributed network (many boxes). This is the part that can't really be packaged up and redistributed.

- Greg

Vyusur

algovincian said:

Whoa - great to see so much activity in this thread (especially all of the more finished work being posted). Makes me want to get off me arse and do something official . . . almost . . . lol.

Still waiting for webGL to be supported better on mobiles before I dive in using Panoply/Unity. For now I'll just settle for playing with some new goodies I picked up:

Was worried about how the simplification algorithms would handle that hair at this scale, but was pleasantly surprised. Don't care for the shadow on her hand or the line on her upper lip, but those things can be fixed easy enough by changing the lighting slightly and running it again. Left her default Iray mats applied when I ran the script, too. The shader conversion/application seems to have gone ok, though I do wish her skin were darker.

- Greg

 

Stunning pictures! Your shaders are wonderful, it's a dream for me, especially the top one.

 

Sammagi

mmitchell_houston said:

Sammy_jr_mart said:

Not official pages (dialogue and shading needs  work).

These are sample pages of  my comic series, using sketching, digital, and daz studio in one!

Pretty good work, especially for a "talky" segment. The coloring in the first panel creates a nice blur -- it has a modern look to it that is appealing. I like the character designs -- they make it easy to tell them apart in long shots. I want to focus on your lettering, though. The biggest issue I see is that you are "choking" your lettering and your art. By this I mean that your word balloons are a little too small -- the text is crowded. Additionally, most of your word balloons are too close to the speaker's head. Finally, and this is an aesthetic consideration on your part, but I do suggest you consider whether or not the balloons need to stay inside the panels, or if they can go outside the panel border sometimes.

I hope it's okay, but I took the liberty to do a 15-min mock-up showing some changes I'm suggesting to the balloon placement and size. For the first page, I did a quick butcher job and moved the balloons around. For page two, I just indicated the move (or increasing the balloon size) with pink highlights. I also added some yellow to the caption over the map. HOWEVER... if the guy with glasses is speaking, then you'd really be better off with just another word balloon coming from him... or if you like it as is, you should add some quotation marks around the text.

Anyway, I do like where this is headed, but I definitely think the lettering needs to be beefed up. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more.

 

I appreciate the suggestions a lot and I'm taking them in great consideration once the artwork is done. I also agree with the lettering too small and placement. This is due to a hard balancing between composition and dialogue.

Sammagi

mmitchell_houston said:

Sammy_jr_mart said:

Cover for issue 3. I'm redoing the second one to make it fit with the plot and story premise.

I did a quick mock-up of what I meant about adding a lighter blend to the top of the cover. I made no other changes to your logo colors, just the background.

And here's another version with the lighter top blend, but also with a change to the logo color. Comic books change logo colors all the time so they will compliment the artwork. I really think that's something you should consider.

Sorry these are so sloppy, but I was working pretty fast and loose to whip these up.

Thanks, no worries bud, I actually like what I see here. In fact a friend of mine gave me a box full of comic books and recommends studying the covers. The recent Iron man covers actually fits well with the theme. The first comic issue cover will hardly have any action, but rather sets the exposition that will slowly escalate upward.

mmitchell_houston

david_macrae said:

@mmitchell_houston Definitely the first.  It looks better. Cleaner and like you said your classic style!

Probably the one I will use (it is definitely cleaner). BUT... the other effect is more in line with the rest of the book, so I will probably take one more pass at it to see if I can clean it up.

mmitchell_houston

Sammy_jr_mart said:

mmitchell_houston said:

Sammy_jr_mart said:

Not official pages (dialogue and shading needs  work).

These are sample pages of  my comic series, using sketching, digital, and daz studio in one!

Pretty good work, especially for a "talky" segment. The coloring in the first panel creates a nice blur -- it has a modern look to it that is appealing. I like the character designs -- they make it easy to tell them apart in long shots. I want to focus on your lettering, though. The biggest issue I see is that you are "choking" your lettering and your art. By this I mean that your word balloons are a little too small -- the text is crowded. Additionally, most of your word balloons are too close to the speaker's head. Finally, and this is an aesthetic consideration on your part, but I do suggest you consider whether or not the balloons need to stay inside the panels, or if they can go outside the panel border sometimes.

I hope it's okay, but I took the liberty to do a 15-min mock-up showing some changes I'm suggesting to the balloon placement and size. For the first page, I did a quick butcher job and moved the balloons around. For page two, I just indicated the move (or increasing the balloon size) with pink highlights. I also added some yellow to the caption over the map. HOWEVER... if the guy with glasses is speaking, then you'd really be better off with just another word balloon coming from him... or if you like it as is, you should add some quotation marks around the text.

Anyway, I do like where this is headed, but I definitely think the lettering needs to be beefed up. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more.

 

I appreciate the suggestions a lot and I'm taking them in great consideration once the artwork is done. I also agree with the lettering too small and placement. This is due to a hard balancing between composition and dialogue.

Lettering is an art unto itself, and it has different rules for composition. If possible, go to a comic shop (or Barnes and Noble) and just browse through about 10 modern comics and look at the lettering. Note how it sits near the art, note how often the baloons break the panel borders, and so forth. And, I know this sounds weird, but seeing them physically might give you a different perspective than just looking online. Of course, if you have a stack of RECENT comics (less than 10 years old), go through them with a critical eye. Why do I say "recent?" Because lettering styles have changed in the past 10-15 years in several ways, and it looks like you're trying for a modern look. For the two stories I'm working on, I'm actually going for an old-fashioned lettering look (since one of the stories is set in 1947), so I'm doing things differently than I would suggest to you.

Looking forward to seeing more when it's done.

mmitchell_houston

algovincian said:

Atanacius said:

@algovincian : Is this a product you'll releasing at shop soon as a Shader (Iray/3Delight ?) for we can play with ? I ask that due to your render presented from the Monique 8 thread from I came linked to this thread of yours :D

In short, unfortunately no. It's a 2 step process:

1. The scene is analyzed in DS, a series of new shaders is dynamically applied and parameters set, and the analysis passes are rendered out

2. The output is sent to algorithms outside of DS and the info is used to govern the decisions made (strokes that are made by fractal algorithms, etc.)

The second part includes complex neural networks that run on a distributed network (many boxes). This is the part that can't really be packaged up and redistributed.

- Greg

Greg: That is one of the most succinct summaries you've ever posted. And -- sigh -- the saddest. your results are SOOOOOO stunning that it's just sad to know I'll never get to use your process.

algovincian

mmitchell_houston said:

algovincian said:

Atanacius said:

@algovincian : Is this a product you'll releasing at shop soon as a Shader (Iray/3Delight ?) for we can play with ? I ask that due to your render presented from the Monique 8 thread from I came linked to this thread of yours :D

In short, unfortunately no. It's a 2 step process:

1. The scene is analyzed in DS, a series of new shaders is dynamically applied and parameters set, and the analysis passes are rendered out

2. The output is sent to algorithms outside of DS and the info is used to govern the decisions made (strokes that are made by fractal algorithms, etc.)

The second part includes complex neural networks that run on a distributed network (many boxes). This is the part that can't really be packaged up and redistributed.

- Greg

Greg: That is one of the most succinct summaries you've ever posted. And -- sigh -- the saddest. your results are SOOOOOO stunning that it's just sad to know I'll never get to use your process.

Thanks, Mike - I really do wish the process wasn't so convoluted.

 

Vyusur said:

algovincian said:

Whoa - great to see so much activity in this thread (especially all of the more finished work being posted). Makes me want to get off me arse and do something official . . . almost . . . lol.

Still waiting for webGL to be supported better on mobiles before I dive in using Panoply/Unity. For now I'll just settle for playing with some new goodies I picked up:

Was worried about how the simplification algorithms would handle that hair at this scale, but was pleasantly surprised. Don't care for the shadow on her hand or the line on her upper lip, but those things can be fixed easy enough by changing the lighting slightly and running it again. Left her default Iray mats applied when I ran the script, too. The shader conversion/application seems to have gone ok, though I do wish her skin were darker.

- Greg

Stunning pictures! Your shaders are wonderful, it's a dream for me, especially the top one.

Glad you enjoyed the images, @Vyusur. I couldn't even tell you how many all nighters I've pulled coding until I couldn't see straight over the years, and I've been working on these algorithms for decades!

Here's another pencil one that I don't think I've ever posted here featuring Narkissa's ears on multiple figures (https://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-narkissa-hd-for-genesis-3-female-s):

- Greg

 

algovincian

mmitchell_houston said:

I decided to update a few illustrations for the Gutshot Rule Book. I decided to try two approaches. The first one is my standard "noir" style, and the second is the basketweave effect. 

Both images were created in Poser 11 with clean-up in Photoshop.

Image 1 -- Finishes in Manga Studio 5 EX (aka Clip Studio Paint).
Image 2 -- Basketweave effect created by India Ink plug-in.

Any opinions on which you like better?

I like the first one, too. On another note, you mentioned Manga Studio . . . that's made by the same people that make MotionArtist, no? Do you have any experience with it - specifically as far as how the output runs on mobile devices?

- Greg

tkdrobert

algovincian said:

mmitchell_houston said:

I decided to update a few illustrations for the Gutshot Rule Book. I decided to try two approaches. The first one is my standard "noir" style, and the second is the basketweave effect. 

Both images were created in Poser 11 with clean-up in Photoshop.

Image 1 -- Finishes in Manga Studio 5 EX (aka Clip Studio Paint).
Image 2 -- Basketweave effect created by India Ink plug-in.

Any opinions on which you like better?

I like the first one, too. On another note, you mentioned Manga Studio . . . that's made by the same people that make MotionArtist, no? Do you have any experience with it - specifically as far as how the output runs on mobile devices?

- Greg

I vote 1st one as well.

mmitchell_houston

algovincian said:

I like the first one, too. On another note, you mentioned Manga Studio . . . that's made by the same people that make MotionArtist, no? Do you have any experience with it - specifically as far as how the output runs on mobile devices?

- Greg

I think I will just go with the first one for now. It definitely does look better than the one I have now, and if I choose it I might manage to get one more illustration redone before my deadline on Monday.

Sorry, I have not yet used Motion Artist. It has been on my radar for a long time, and I must admit that I have been verrrry tempted to buy it when it's been on sale. But I have decided that, since that seems to be more of a promotional tool (something to make cool comic trailers, I'm thinking) that I'm better off focusing on content creation for now.

mmitchell_houston

algovincian said:

Glad you enjoyed the images, @Vyusur. I couldn't even tell you how many all nighters I've pulled coding until I couldn't see straight over the years, and I've been working on these algorithms for decades!

Here's another pencil one that I don't think I've ever posted here featuring Narkissa's ears on multiple figures (https://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-narkissa-hd-for-genesis-3-female-s):

- Greg

I susupect that you are right -- I don't recall seeing this one before. This one has a very nice, loose sketch look to it.

algovincian

mmitchell_houston said:

algovincian said:

I like the first one, too. On another note, you mentioned Manga Studio . . . that's made by the same people that make MotionArtist, no? Do you have any experience with it - specifically as far as how the output runs on mobile devices?

- Greg

I think I will just go with the first one for now. It definitely does look better than the one I have now, and if I choose it I might manage to get one more illustration redone before my deadline on Monday.

Sorry, I have not yet used Motion Artist. It has been on my radar for a long time, and I must admit that I have been verrrry tempted to buy it when it's been on sale. But I have decided that, since that seems to be more of a promotional tool (something to make cool comic trailers, I'm thinking) that I'm better off focusing on content creation for now.

Anybody else have any experience with it?

The thought of publishing one html5 (or webGL) version of content on my own website is very appealing (as opposed to separate apps for separate OSs, for sale in separate stores, etc.). I was hoping that webGL output from Unity would have progressed further (as far as universal support on mobile devices) than it has by now, but for now, it appears as though I'm still dreaming.

- Greg

algovincian

mmitchell_houston said:

algovincian said:

Glad you enjoyed the images, @Vyusur. I couldn't even tell you how many all nighters I've pulled coding until I couldn't see straight over the years, and I've been working on these algorithms for decades!

Here's another pencil one that I don't think I've ever posted here featuring Narkissa's ears on multiple figures (https://www.daz3d.com/fwsa-narkissa-hd-for-genesis-3-female-s):

- Greg

I susupect that you are right -- I don't recall seeing this one before. This one has a very nice, loose sketch look to it.

Thanks, Mike - that's always been a challenge for me (and I think for NPR in general). "Loose" is a good way to describe part of the effect I was after, and the real challenge was to achieve it while still maintaining a high level of detail. I believe this is a big part of what is generally considered art!

I've always been amazed by painters who are able to grab a palette knife, pick up some different color paints off their palette in different amounts/order/positions, and then, holding the knife at a certain angle and moving in an arc applying varied pressure, utilize the underlying texture of the canvas to scrape the knife across the surface in order to create detail that has a wonderfully random (seemingly) aspect to it while still managing to produce recognizable detail. Amazing.

Maybe in our world there lives a happy little tree over there . . . no mistakes - just happy accidents!

- Greg

philebus

mmitchell_houston said:

I decided to update a few illustrations for the Gutshot Rule Book. I decided to try two approaches. The first one is my standard "noir" style, and the second is the basketweave effect. 

Both images were created in Poser 11 with clean-up in Photoshop.

Image 1 -- Finishes in Manga Studio 5 EX (aka Clip Studio Paint).
Image 2 -- Basketweave effect created by India Ink plug-in.

Any opinions on which you like better?

Both of these really are excellent but I would be hard pushed to choose a favourite as each is a different style and 'best' is going to depend upon context.

philebus

Just passing the time while I listen to some audio drama (I picked up the first series of Jago & Litefoot - a recent spin-off from an 70's Doctor Who story).

Frank__

Sammy_jr_mart said:

mmitchell_houston said:

Sammy_jr_mart said:

Not official pages (dialogue and shading needs  work).

These are sample pages of  my comic series, using sketching, digital, and daz studio in one!

Pretty good work, especially for a "talky" segment. The coloring in the first panel creates a nice blur -- it has a modern look to it that is appealing. I like the character designs -- they make it easy to tell them apart in long shots. I want to focus on your lettering, though. The biggest issue I see is that you are "choking" your lettering and your art. By this I mean that your word balloons are a little too small -- the text is crowded. Additionally, most of your word balloons are too close to the speaker's head. Finally, and this is an aesthetic consideration on your part, but I do suggest you consider whether or not the balloons need to stay inside the panels, or if they can go outside the panel border sometimes.

I hope it's okay, but I took the liberty to do a 15-min mock-up showing some changes I'm suggesting to the balloon placement and size. For the first page, I did a quick butcher job and moved the balloons around. For page two, I just indicated the move (or increasing the balloon size) with pink highlights. I also added some yellow to the caption over the map. HOWEVER... if the guy with glasses is speaking, then you'd really be better off with just another word balloon coming from him... or if you like it as is, you should add some quotation marks around the text.

Anyway, I do like where this is headed, but I definitely think the lettering needs to be beefed up. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more.

 

I appreciate the suggestions a lot and I'm taking them in great consideration once the artwork is done. I also agree with the lettering too small and placement. This is due to a hard balancing between composition and dialogue.

Considering composition and speech bubbles: don't be too shy putting the speech bubbles partially over the figures. A figure has not to be seen completely in every frame; only the "telling aspect" is important. (Made this "mistake" myself, playing hours with composition only to have space for speech bubbles, because I didn't wanted my precious rendered figures going hidden by profane speech bubbles. "Mistake", yeah mistake :) )

Quasar

algovincian said:

If you've got any non-photorealistic renders (NPR) that you've done, please post 'em!

I'm interested in everything that's out there - all styles (from toon to line-art to painting, and everything in between), and any software/workflow. Please show us your work!

I've been having a blast buying & rendering DAZ content as I continue development on my own line art style. I'm not a 3D artist, so having easy access to tons of 3D content as I test has been great. The combination of Shader Mixer and DAZ Script has allowed for quick integration with my existing hybrid HDR and fractal drawing algorithms.

Anyway, attached are a few examples of DAZ content I've rendered as line art. I look forward to seeing what others have created!

- Greg

This is amazing work. It would be perfect for the projects I'm dreaming up. I wish I had this, or the knowledge and skill to recreate it.

mmitchell_houston

Frank__ said:

Sammy_jr_mart said:

mmitchell_houston said:

Sammy_jr_mart said:

Not official pages (dialogue and shading needs  work).

These are sample pages of  my comic series, using sketching, digital, and daz studio in one!

Pretty good work, especially for a "talky" segment. The coloring in the first panel creates a nice blur -- it has a modern look to it that is appealing. I like the character designs -- they make it easy to tell them apart in long shots. I want to focus on your lettering, though. The biggest issue I see is that you are "choking" your lettering and your art. By this I mean that your word balloons are a little too small -- the text is crowded. Additionally, most of your word balloons are too close to the speaker's head. Finally, and this is an aesthetic consideration on your part, but I do suggest you consider whether or not the balloons need to stay inside the panels, or if they can go outside the panel border sometimes.

I hope it's okay, but I took the liberty to do a 15-min mock-up showing some changes I'm suggesting to the balloon placement and size. For the first page, I did a quick butcher job and moved the balloons around. For page two, I just indicated the move (or increasing the balloon size) with pink highlights. I also added some yellow to the caption over the map. HOWEVER... if the guy with glasses is speaking, then you'd really be better off with just another word balloon coming from him... or if you like it as is, you should add some quotation marks around the text.

Anyway, I do like where this is headed, but I definitely think the lettering needs to be beefed up. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more.

 

I appreciate the suggestions a lot and I'm taking them in great consideration once the artwork is done. I also agree with the lettering too small and placement. This is due to a hard balancing between composition and dialogue.

Considering composition and speech bubbles: don't be too shy putting the speech bubbles partially over the figures. A figure has not to be seen completely in every frame; only the "telling aspect" is important. (Made this "mistake" myself, playing hours with composition only to have space for speech bubbles, because I didn't wanted my precious rendered figures going hidden by profane speech bubbles. "Mistake", yeah mistake :) )

I definitely have that issue myself! For me, the hardest part of my growth as a comic book writer and illustrator was to look at professional comics with a critical eye, learning to see the pros got the pieces to work together (and when they didn't). 

mmitchell_houston

algovincian said:

I like the first one, too. On another note, you mentioned Manga Studio . . . that's made by the same people that make MotionArtist, no? Do you have any experience with it - specifically as far as how the output runs on mobile devices?

. . .

Anybody else have any experience with it?

The thought of publishing one html5 (or webGL) version of content on my own website is very appealing (as opposed to separate apps for separate OSs, for sale in separate stores, etc.). I was hoping that webGL output from Unity would have progressed further (as far as universal support on mobile devices) than it has by now, but for now, it appears as though I'm still dreaming.

- Greg

Dagnabit, Greg... now ya got me thinking about Motion Artist again! And with Thanksgiving coming... well, Smith Micro usually has some pretty good sale discounts. Hmmm. We'll see if I can resist picking it up for much longer.

algovincian

mmitchell_houston said:

algovincian said:

I like the first one, too. On another note, you mentioned Manga Studio . . . that's made by the same people that make MotionArtist, no? Do you have any experience with it - specifically as far as how the output runs on mobile devices?

. . .

Anybody else have any experience with it?

The thought of publishing one html5 (or webGL) version of content on my own website is very appealing (as opposed to separate apps for separate OSs, for sale in separate stores, etc.). I was hoping that webGL output from Unity would have progressed further (as far as universal support on mobile devices) than it has by now, but for now, it appears as though I'm still dreaming.

- Greg

Dagnabit, Greg... now ya got me thinking about Motion Artist again! And with Thanksgiving coming... well, Smith Micro usually has some pretty good sale discounts. Hmmm. We'll see if I can resist picking it up for much longer.

Yeah - been thinking along the same lines. I may bite on MotionArtist soon, too (if the output runs well on the majority of mobile devices). Panoply/Unity is what I really want to use, but webGL just isn't supported on mobile devices well enough yet. I've been in touch with the developer directly about the subject and he's of the opinion that widespread webGL support on mobiles is still a ways away. His prompt and straightforward response makes me want to support Panoply, so I'll invest in it regardless with the hopes/assumption that eventually the support will come.

- Greg

algovincian

Quasar said:

algovincian said:

If you've got any non-photorealistic renders (NPR) that you've done, please post 'em!

I'm interested in everything that's out there - all styles (from toon to line-art to painting, and everything in between), and any software/workflow. Please show us your work!

I've been having a blast buying & rendering DAZ content as I continue development on my own line art style. I'm not a 3D artist, so having easy access to tons of 3D content as I test has been great. The combination of Shader Mixer and DAZ Script has allowed for quick integration with my existing hybrid HDR and fractal drawing algorithms.

Anyway, attached are a few examples of DAZ content I've rendered as line art. I look forward to seeing what others have created!

- Greg

This is amazing work. It would be perfect for the projects I'm dreaming up. I wish I had this, or the knowledge and skill to recreate it.

Thanks, Quasar. Interesting to go back and read that post from 2.5 years ago . . .

Why not take a stab at coming up with something of your own? Also, there are quite a few active members of this thread who are interested in the same thing, and even more lurkers (I get contacted privately all the time by those looking to author their own NPR algorithms). Perhaps you could team up with others of like mind to create something new and unique?

And of course, if you do, please be sure to share some of your results and a bit about your process with us!

- Greg

 

david_macrae

oops sorry

tkdrobert

 

Anyone know where I can fins a harness like this one?

tkdrobert

This is as close as I get get right now.  Still not 100% Satisfied.

mmitchell_houston

tkdrobert said:

This is as close as I get get right now.  Still not 100% Satisfied.

It's very nice, but I know what you mean. You get something in your mind and get disappointed when you can't quite execute it. I had that same issue picking out the harness for my hero guy for the b&w fantasy comic I'm working on. I finally had to just let go and pick something that worked, rather than have something exactly the way I originally envisioned it.