Genesis 8 or 8.1 shapes on genesis 9?

crosswind

charles said:

Here's my Wrap, with labeling so if someone wants to improve on it they can.

My process requires using the built in transfer tool to make a full body texture. But to keep the quality I wrote a program that upscales all the images in a direcotry to 16k, because the tool will only output textures based on the max size of the originals. 

I wanted to skip the step of of using the Daz texture transfer tool, and tried to get Wrap to support the seperate sub mesh maps but couldn't figure it out.  According to the documentation it says it only supports one texture per model, and it's unclear if that includes submeshes as well, which probably does. But no photoshop tweaking needed in this process as long as the source obj and target obj are near the same.

The graph should be pretty straight forward, the only thing to note is that you have set the U in the UV offset for

HEAD =0

BODY =1

LEGS =2

ARMS =3

And you do have to load each map type seperatly, the Color, Specular, Bump, Normal or whatever else you converted.

May I ask what built-in tool you used? Map Transfer？

j11011

crosswind said:

Could you pls show a detailed graph of these nodes if possible? I'm really stucked in these steps. Many thanks!

 

First, look up video called "Wrap3 Face transfer tutorial" on youtube by Kelvin Jin, that is what I used to figure most of the stuff out

This will show you direction I went, but I don't feel like I know enough to write a tutorial, and the results so far haven't been perfect either

Notes from what I was able to figure out:

- UV "projections" on G9 are larger than previous gen, meaning, to make a complete texture for G9-arms you must combine G8-arms and G8-body, only both of these projected on to the new G9 mesh will cover the whole area the G9-arms from which you then extract the new texture

- G9-head needs G8.1 face+body+ears+head+lips (and you must use appropriate U value mentioned in an earlier post on this thread)

- G9-body ~ G8.1 body+head

- G9-arms ~ G8.1 arms+body

- G9-legs ~ G8.1 legs+body

- MergeImage nodes - right and left inputs define which texture gets put on top of the other, use this to sort out overlap issues, as I said - my example tree isn't perfect, so some reordering might produce better results

- results aren't perfect, I think a lot depends on how good the actual wrap is from one figure to the other, I used around 60 points so the meshes align better to one another, that is necessary for old textures to project on the right places on the new mesh

- default A poses will cause issues with mouth and eyelid wrapping (even using points), I haven't had the time to try and test it with exprting eyelids half way closed and mouth slightly open - if the mesh intersects itself somewhere, that will result in incorrect texture projection and you'll have to do a lot of photoshopping to the new extracted textures

- ear translucency (due to complexity of the wrapping) seems to be especially troublesome

- Brush tool is a necessity to fix the autowrapping bumps all around the figure

- like in the tutorial YT video I mentioned, I also excluded the eye sockets from the Wrap, but that resulted in the eyes grosely out of place and general eye movement problems, maybe something to do with misaligned bones (and automatic bone adjustment to mesh inside Daz doesn't help), so might need to experiment there, I think it worked better in my earlier attempts when I didn't exclude anything, but the mouth socket got so distoret that it wasn't useable in Daz, so that must be excluded, but need to play around with eyes more to figure out proper way to do that

as I said, I'm a total novice to this, so I can be doing something quite wrong, but all in all - a lot work for not nearly what I would call good end result, I also noticed some issues with mesh deformation around joints when they are at extreme adjustments suggesting more points necessary to wrap the G9 mesh on the particular G8.1 figure I used

 

crosswind

j11011 said:

crosswind said:

Could you pls show a detailed graph of these nodes if possible? I'm really stucked in these steps. Many thanks!

 

First, look up video called "Wrap3 Face transfer tutorial" on youtube by Kelvin Jin, that is what I used to figure most of the stuff out

This will show you direction I went, but I don't feel like I know enough to write a tutorial, and the results so far haven't been perfect either

Notes from what I was able to figure out:

- UV "projections" on G9 are larger than previous gen, meaning, to make a complete texture for G9-arms you must combine G8-arms and G8-body, only both of these projected on to the new G9 mesh will cover the whole area the G9-arms from which you then extract the new texture

- G9-head needs G8.1 face+body+ears+head+lips (and you must use appropriate U value mentioned in an earlier post on this thread)

- G9-body ~ G8.1 body+head

- G9-arms ~ G8.1 arms+body

- G9-legs ~ G8.1 legs+body

- MergeImage nodes - right and left inputs define which texture gets put on top of the other, use this to sort out overlap issues, as I said - my example tree isn't perfect, so some reordering might produce better results

- results aren't perfect, I think a lot depends on how good the actual wrap is from one figure to the other, I used around 60 points so the meshes align better to one another, that is necessary for old textures to project on the right places on the new mesh

- default A poses will cause issues with mouth and eyelid wrapping (even using points), I haven't had the time to try and test it with exprting eyelids half way closed and mouth slightly open - if the mesh intersects itself somewhere, that will result in incorrect texture projection and you'll have to do a lot of photoshopping to the new extracted textures

- ear translucency (due to complexity of the wrapping) seems to be especially troublesome

- Brush tool is a necessity to fix the autowrapping bumps all around the figure

- like in the tutorial YT video I mentioned, I also excluded the eye sockets from the Wrap, but that resulted in the eyes grosely out of place and general eye movement problems, maybe something to do with misaligned bones (and automatic bone adjustment to mesh inside Daz doesn't help), so might need to experiment there, I think it worked better in my earlier attempts when I didn't exclude anything, but the mouth socket got so distoret that it wasn't useable in Daz, so that must be excluded, but need to play around with eyes more to figure out proper way to do that

as I said, I'm a total novice to this, so I can be doing something quite wrong, but all in all - a lot work for not nearly what I would call good end result, I also noticed some issues with mesh deformation around joints when they are at extreme adjustments suggesting more points necessary to wrap the G9 mesh on the particular G8.1 figure I used

So cool!!  I'm gonna learn it well. Much appreciated!

Masterstroke

I found this link about morph transfering. It is german language, but it will might be repeated in english as well.
But the visuals are self explaining.
 

So konvertieren wir Genesis 8 Figuren auf Genesis 9 - YouTube
 

Darknessvaltier

charles said:

Darknessvaltier said:

charles said:

PS: Thanks for the reminding me about clone shaping, lol that made it esaier to match the base for the wrap.

How i can use that Clone Shaping?

It depends are you trying to convert textures or shape?

 

Shape

charles

Darknessvaltier said:

charles said:

Darknessvaltier said:

charles said:

PS: Thanks for the reminding me about clone shaping, lol that made it esaier to match the base for the wrap.

How i can use that Clone Shaping?

It depends are you trying to convert textures or shape?

 

Shape

Then watch the video posted about transfering g2 mod to g3, that's litteraly how I transfered the Bridget8 shape to G9. I was refering to texture transfers that requires Wrap2021. 

Here's bridget8 on g9 with both shape and textures.

There's probably a way to do all this as well in Blender (shape + textures) and it will be interesting to see if someone posts how to do that.

charles

 

First, look up video called "Wrap3 Face transfer tutorial" on youtube by Kelvin Jin, that is what I used to figure most of the stuff out

This will show you direction I went, but I don't feel like I know enough to write a tutorial, and the results so far haven't been perfect either

Notes from what I was able to figure out:

- UV "projections" on G9 are larger than previous gen, meaning, to make a complete texture for G9-arms you must combine G8-arms and G8-body, only both of these projected on to the new G9 mesh will cover the whole area the G9-arms from which you then extract the new texture

- G9-head needs G8.1 face+body+ears+head+lips (and you must use appropriate U value mentioned in an earlier post on this thread)

- G9-body ~ G8.1 body+head

- G9-arms ~ G8.1 arms+body

- G9-legs ~ G8.1 legs+body

- MergeImage nodes - right and left inputs define which texture gets put on top of the other, use this to sort out overlap issues, as I said - my example tree isn't perfect, so some reordering might produce better results

- results aren't perfect, I think a lot depends on how good the actual wrap is from one figure to the other, I used around 60 points so the meshes align better to one another, that is necessary for old textures to project on the right places on the new mesh

- default A poses will cause issues with mouth and eyelid wrapping (even using points), I haven't had the time to try and test it with exprting eyelids half way closed and mouth slightly open - if the mesh intersects itself somewhere, that will result in incorrect texture projection and you'll have to do a lot of photoshopping to the new extracted textures

- ear translucency (due to complexity of the wrapping) seems to be especially troublesome

- Brush tool is a necessity to fix the autowrapping bumps all around the figure

- like in the tutorial YT video I mentioned, I also excluded the eye sockets from the Wrap, but that resulted in the eyes grosely out of place and general eye movement problems, maybe something to do with misaligned bones (and automatic bone adjustment to mesh inside Daz doesn't help), so might need to experiment there, I think it worked better in my earlier attempts when I didn't exclude anything, but the mouth socket got so distoret that it wasn't useable in Daz, so that must be excluded, but need to play around with eyes more to figure out proper way to do that

as I said, I'm a total novice to this, so I can be doing something quite wrong, but all in all - a lot work for not nearly what I would call good end result, I also noticed some issues with mesh deformation around joints when they are at extreme adjustments suggesting more points necessary to wrap the G9 mesh on the particular G8.1 figure I used

 

 Thank you very much for sharing the graph.  I tried to do it kinda like you have it there but also ran into seam issues but didn't think about using the brush. 

terry_duquette

Well for those who wanted to know the location of the G8 F/M Clones, here it is. I have also included a basic way to create and save a morph so it is available for all your future G9 characters. Creating these morphs will allow you to accurately move any G8 F/M morphs to look exactly like they were supposed to. I focused on the G8F mostly, but you can easily duplicate this effort for the G8M clone. In fact I recommend doing them both at the same time. I have other tutorials I have previously made showing how to use the Transfer Utility, but other tutorials and videos are out there also. I aimed this primarily at the new users out there, hope it helps. As has been shown previously on this thread, this is NOT the only way to do this, but it works reliably for me, so I thought I would share.  Be aware the rigging is very different, so any weirdness or anamolies with these cloned figures will take additional work, far outside of scope of this basic tutorial.  TD

nonesuch00

terry_duquette said:

Well for those who wanted to know the location of the G8 F/M Clones, here it is. I have also included a basic way to create and save a morph so it is available for all your future G9 characters. Creating these morphs will allow you to accurately move any G8 F/M morphs to look exactly like they were supposed to. I focused on the G8F mostly, but you can easily duplicate this effort for the G8M clone. In fact I recommend doing them both at the same time. I have other tutorials I have previously made showing how to use the Transfer Utility, but other tutorials and videos are out there also. I aimed this primarily at the new users out there, hope it helps. As has been shown previously on this thread, this is NOT the only way to do this, but it works reliably for me, so I thought I would share.  Be aware the rigging is very different, so any weirdness or anamolies with these cloned figures will take additional work, far outside of scope of this basic tutorial.  TD

Thank you.

j11011

About my previous post with using Wrap to morph the G9 mesh right on to the G8.1 morphed body, it didn't yeald good results, better with a lot of point tweaking so the G9 mesh lands on the right spots, but it was a hit and miss sort of result getting the joints to line up correctly (so the "adjust rigging to shape" can fix bones later on)

The "clone" route went much better in regards to joints, but depending on the source figure, I found there were quite a bit of issues with eyes, no adjusting their position would match the tear for example, eyelid shape didn't seem correct, so fixing in something like Blender could be in order, or might try to use this clone-morphed G9 mesh now as input for the previous Wrap process and use Brush to adjust the mesh around the eyes, could also serve as a better source for transfering textures.

quite involved process to say the least...

 

another note which cost probably good 2-3 hours to figure out, if you ever plan to export G9 figures from Daz as OBJs, pay attention to what material is applied to those figures, because who would have thunk that different materials on G9 result in totally differently arranged UVs in those OBJs.....  I mean (*&#*&$)(@&$@#$ seriously, WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!

davidtriune

mesh conversion by WP Guru pretty much the same as WendyLuvsCatz

another way is to make a g9 clone for g8 so you can fit g9 to g8, then you can "puppet" the g9 (also good if you ever want to fit g9 stuff on the g8). are we allowed to upload genesis clones here? I'd do that if I could, to save others' time.

Richard Haseltine

davidtriune said:

mesh conversion by WP Guru pretty much the same as WendyLuvsCatz

another way is to make a g9 clone for g8 so you can fit g9 to g8, then you can "puppet" the g9 (also good if you ever want to fit g9 stuff on the g8). are we allowed to upload genesis clones here? I'd do that if I could, to save others' time.

You would need prior permission from Daz to upload a clone (for a Daz figure - the authorisation comes from the owner of the shape being cloned)

crosswind

davidtriune said:

mesh conversion by WP Guru pretty much the same as WendyLuvsCatz

another way is to make a g9 clone for g8 so you can fit g9 to g8, then you can "puppet" the g9 (also good if you ever want to fit g9 stuff on the g8). are we allowed to upload genesis clones here? I'd do that if I could, to save others' time.

Cloning is a traditional way, however, this route does not work for any HD figures of G8X. We could only end up here without that famous HD plugin, even using Wrap~~ By now I think the most valuable stuff coming from G9 are those 9 detailed normal maps, ah only 6 maybe...

After converting them for G8, some change of details could be seen. I'm still making effort on it by using j11011‘s method but just saw a guy has already worked them all out. sigh~

wimvds

I just tried the approach outlined in WP Guru's video on Faye (by bluejeante) and did a quick render (with Victoria 9 mats & defaut headlamp lighting ). I must say that I'm quite happy with how these basic renders turned out (just starting out with Daz3D) ...

In a nutshell : it's a gen 8 character morph with gen 3 hair and clothing on genesis 9.

davidtriune

In that case I'll just write the steps  here, takes about 5 minutes anyway.

 

Making G9 Clone

1. load g8/g9

2. fit g8 to g9 

3. set g8 to base res and export it

4. load that into g8 with morphloader

5. save that morph as a modifier/clone

note the fitting will take a lot shorter on a barebones daz install.

 

Converting G8 morphs to G9

1. fit g9 to g8

2. dial shape on g8

3. export g9 on base res

4. reimport that with morph loader

5. adjust rigging to shape, erc freeze

6. save morph

Angells

It says geometry did not match. I exported without the g8 eyelashes do I need to remove g9 also?

Angells

when exporting g8 with eyelashes and then importing it would give the geometry did not match error, what about g9?

 

davidtriune

@Angells always load characters in dev mode and export as base mesh. if you do those, it should work.

hellmasters

Did anyone notice the clone solution had a serious issue? The nipple position is lower (one block down) than its original location on G8 model. Means it is almost useless...

But when I tried to wrap characters over from G8 to G9, there's no such issue. Mean the density on the upper chest is different from cloning to wrapping...

j11011

there are also weird things going on around the shoulder joint at extreme rotation ends, while the bone seems to adjust to the cloned mesh correctly (more or less), the deformation around shoulder top, armpit and upper arm near armpit looks off, on the clone itself it looks correct, but that clone gets imported as morph for the G9 figure, the unwanted deformation starts to show

might be something to do with the JCMs that come with the base potato G9 shape, because, when the arms are all the way up, adjusting some JCMs do fix some unwanted deformation, but when the arms are all the way down next to torso, they create a gap in the chest-armpit-arm area that shouldn't be there (and is not in the source G8 figure I tried), I tried to adjust the shoulder deformation weight maps, but couldn't get it to look the way the G8 figure mesh looks at those poses

another question or note - what is with the joint deformation weight maps glitching sometimes? I was 100% sure I did paint only the shoulder joint map only to later discover changes to spinal maps, and trying to copy them from base G9 figure only led to further corruption of said maps, some painted spots go away in a map, other new ones show when you edit adjacent joint map and so on, I noticed this happen also on G8/8.1 when I tried to learn Daz early on, but once ran into these glitches, I sort of gave up on it and never touched them in fear of braking a figure in an "unrecoverable" way

attached are pictures to illustrate what I'm talking about

note - the G8 figure was "cloned" using XTransfer G3 to G8 addon

 

edit: I did some more weight painting, not just on the shoulder, but Spine4 AND Left Upper Arm, and was able to improve this, but also had to adjust the bones somewhat, which kind of broke the extreme rotations, meaning they bent out of place, but maybe limiting the rotation could help with that

I wonder if there will ever be an automated script that will handle this as well as it did for the G3>G8 considering all the changes to the mesh

PerttiA

The arm/armpit cavity is quite common even with G8 (morphed/dialed up) figures, but noticed the same already when playing around with G9.

crosswind

davidtriune said:

In that case I'll just write the steps  here, takes about 5 minutes anyway.

 

Making G9 Clone

1. load g8/g9

2. fit g8 to g9 

3. set g8 to base res and export it ...

 

Still, no matter how I tried with Fitting or Transfer Utility (with or without morph targets), I had no way to bring the ORIGINAL HD morphs with details to G9. While Body Morph + Body HD and Head Morph + Head HD having the same 100% values on both G8M and G9, there's no HD details on G9. The only possible way is to set bigger values, 150% even 200%, I could see the 'details' but the morphs are totally different from what G8M has which means they're not the same HD... So I could only guess that the HD mesh data stored in dhdm files of G8 could not be transferred or completely transferred to G9 ...

 

PerttiA

crosswind said:

Still, no matter how I tried with Fitting or Transfer Utility (with or without morph targets), I had no way to bring the ORIGINAL HD morphs with details to G9. While Body Morph + Body HD and Head Morph + Head HD having the same 100% values on both G8M and G9, there's no HD details on G9. The only possible way is to set bigger values, 150% even 200%, I could see the 'details' but the morphs are totally different from what G8M has which means they're not the same HD... So I could only guess that the HD mesh data stored in dhdm files of G8 could not be transferred or completely transferred to G9 ...

HD morphs cannot be transferred from one generation to another 

Richard Haseltine

PerttiA said:

crosswind said:

Still, no matter how I tried with Fitting or Transfer Utility (with or without morph targets), I had no way to bring the ORIGINAL HD morphs with details to G9. While Body Morph + Body HD and Head Morph + Head HD having the same 100% values on both G8M and G9, there's no HD details on G9. The only possible way is to set bigger values, 150% even 200%, I could see the 'details' but the morphs are totally different from what G8M has which means they're not the same HD... So I could only guess that the HD mesh data stored in dhdm files of G8 could not be transferred or completely transferred to G9 ...

HD morphs cannot be transferred from one generation to another 

Non-HD morphs can, this is discussed in several threads.

nicstt

PerttiA said:

crosswind said:

Still, no matter how I tried with Fitting or Transfer Utility (with or without morph targets), I had no way to bring the ORIGINAL HD morphs with details to G9. While Body Morph + Body HD and Head Morph + Head HD having the same 100% values on both G8M and G9, there's no HD details on G9. The only possible way is to set bigger values, 150% even 200%, I could see the 'details' but the morphs are totally different from what G8M has which means they're not the same HD... So I could only guess that the HD mesh data stored in dhdm files of G8 could not be transferred or completely transferred to G9 ...

HD morphs cannot be transferred from one generation to another 

But as G9 has a higher base geometry, there may be some extra detail if it is dialed in, although it's likely to be minor or subtle. No harm in trying though.

Angells

davidtriune said:

@Angells always load characters in dev mode and export as base mesh. if you do those, it should work. did that for both still giving me geometries did not match.

Pendraia

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I just did it

took 10 mins

dial in clone shape

base resolution convert to prop, G8m transfer utilty (did need to pose legs-6.35)

dial up Dolb hide G8M

export obj

morphloader G9

adjust rigging to figure shape

select morph edit mode ERC freeze

save as support asset morph

Thanks Wendy that's a nice clear summation of the video.

WendyLuvsCatz

Pendraia said:

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I just did it

took 10 mins

dial in clone shape

base resolution convert to prop, G8m transfer utilty (did need to pose legs-6.35)

dial up Dolb hide G8M

export obj

morphloader G9

adjust rigging to figure shape

select morph edit mode ERC freeze

save as support asset morph

Thanks Wendy that's a nice clear summation of the video.

I haven't watched it  think it wasn't out yet when I posted, I use Sickleyield's tutorials, well did for earler generations sort of know the drill now

Pendraia

charles said:

Here's my Wrap, with labeling so if someone wants to improve on it they can.

My process requires using the built in transfer tool to make a full body texture. But to keep the quality I wrote a program that upscales all the images in a direcotry to 16k, because the tool will only output textures based on the max size of the originals. 

I wanted to skip the step of of using the Daz texture transfer tool, and tried to get Wrap to support the seperate sub mesh maps but couldn't figure it out.  According to the documentation it says it only supports one texture per model, and it's unclear if that includes submeshes as well, which probably does. But no photoshop tweaking needed in this process as long as the source obj and target obj are near the same.

The graph should be pretty straight forward, the only thing to note is that you have set the U in the UV offset for

HEAD =0

BODY =1

LEGS =2

ARMS =3

And you do have to load each map type seperatly, the Color, Specular, Bump, Normal or whatever else you converted.

 

Thanks this looks useful...

 

davidtriune

crosswind said:

Still, no matter how I tried with Fitting or Transfer Utility (with or without morph targets), I had no way to bring the ORIGINAL HD morphs with details to G9. While Body Morph + Body HD and Head Morph + Head HD having the same 100% values on both G8M and G9, there's no HD details on G9. The only possible way is to set bigger values, 150% even 200%, I could see the 'details' but the morphs are totally different from what G8M has which means they're not the same HD... So I could only guess that the HD mesh data stored in dhdm files of G8 could not be transferred or completely transferred to G9 ...

probalby  bake them to displacement maps on your g8 and bring those over to g9 by UV conversions.