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Each and every one, going all the way back to when Millennium Woman was released and becoming the first real alternative to "Posette", the very, very basic female model in Poser. The arguments are so similar if you don't know what generation people are talking about, you would never be able to guess. And a year is not even a particularly long time for the arguments to continue – there are people today honestly arguing that Victoria 3 and 4 are superior to anything and everything released later.
Ignore the whinging, use what makes you happy.
I do use V3 regularly. Or one V3 character, at least.
I just wish I could find a way of improving the joints. No, that's wrong. I wish I could find the time so I can learn how to improve the joints of the TriAx version of V3 I've created. The clothing and hair (in particular) were not as good as current, but with a bit of time you can turn V3 into a not-too-bad character even by current standards and can also create adequate autofit clones for many of the later generations' clothing.
Regards,
Richard
Oh yes. Every single time a new figure is released there are people arguing about wether or not the new figure brings anything worthwile, that things should be more compatible with older figures, how vendors just want you to buy everything again, how everything is made for the new figure now, and so on.
I think the biggest crap storm over a new figure happened when we went from Generation 4 which was the last figures made to work in Poser, to the very first Genesis (Generation 5) which was Daz Studio only natively (though could work in Poser with a plugin). Be glad you missed that one.
I just checked and Genesis 9 doesn't work in poser either. Unbelievable!
I heard G9 does work in Carrara. Just sayin'. It's probably fine in Blender, too.
The hd morph restriction is increasingly an issue. I didn't think so before, but... yes, it's a hindrance to have no access. And as much as oso likes to tell us it's no big deal, I disagree and it's one more reason I don't touch g9.
We have the Diffeomorphic addon for blender that imports G9 with JCM’s, animation etc etc.
G9 is actually a bit better if you plan to animate it in an external program.
@richardandtracy Well said!
HA HA! I was just weening myself off of Poser at that time and struggling to wrap my brain around DAZ Studio. I spent a small time in transition trying to go backwards towards Poser using the Genesis importer but eventually made the complete transition and sold my soul to DAZ. Change can be hard. Now I am trying to learn Blender and struggling, but use it, or DAZ, or Bryce, or Poser, or A.I. or whatever works for whatever I am doing. What an AWESOME time to be alive!
[Edit to bring on point with thread topic] And I use every new figure as soon as it comes out just for the joy of trying "the new thing". Using Genesis 9 doesn't mean you can't ALSO use all the previous versions.
And they were right every time. But at least going from V4 to Genesis there was some noticeable improvement in some areas. The limbs were actually changing shape with the bending rather than just changing position, more like a real person. Going from Genesis 3 to Genesis 8, it was harder to notice the improvement. And going from Genesis 8 to 8.1, and to 9, it got much harder or impossible to notice any improvement. It got to the point where you had to be told what's better about it because you wouldn't see it. And it got to the point that the incompatibility outweighed any possible benefits.
I think that explains the issues with trying to dial out G9's breasts completely and the shapes it leaves when you do it.
I tried to like G9. I really did. But I don't.
There are a few things better about G9 than G8, but not much, but they are little improvements.
And I do like those.
BUT
The flat, dead-looking non-reflective mannequin-ish eyes ruin it for me.
I've had people tell me it is my lighting and other things, but it's not true. I know how to use lights. I've tried all sorts of differen lights, different angles, colors, lumen and intensity settings, I've been at thins on anf off for over a year now. I've tried experimenting with the shaders too. Nothing works. I've only had ONE G9 character exhibit eye reflections and they are very faint and only show up on really really close ups of the face.
I have no problems at all getting eye reflections on G8/8.1 No problem at all.
So after over a year of this, I give up. It's not worth the aggrivation with this flawed product.
Until they start making the eyes properly, I'm sticking with G8 and 8.1. I have officially given up on G9. It's trash,
interesting about the eye reflections. I thought it was me.
I have perfomed extensive experiments to figure out why.
I have put G8 and G9 figures in the saxe same spot in the exact same scene and the exact same lights.
G8 eyes produce beautiful reflections. G9 eyes do not.
I' placed random props likewise. Shiny props product light reflections. G9 eyes do not.
I've tried minimal lighting - just one point light - in a scene with the same results.
I've put up to ten different point lights at various positions, different lumen and intensity settings - with the same results.
When I look at my close ups, I can clearly see the yes on G9 figures literally look flat compared to the spherical eyes of G8 figures. That might be a clue.
I've spent over a year seraching the internet trying to find some way to make G9 eyes work properly and nothing at all helps.
I recently purchased a newer G9 figure in hopes someone had done better with the eyes. Nope. Same crappy nonreflective eyes.
Hopefully someday G10 will come out and the design team will make the eyes right. Hopefully. But until then,I'm not wasting any more of my money and time on G9.
I'm done with it.
I agree 1000%
I fight for hours with this character just to make it look somewhat attractive....
Enough of this time sucking... back to G3 and G8...done.
JD
G9 has not given me one single render I was happy with.
Not one.
Make the eyes right.
I'm going to have to have a look at the eyes on G9 a little closer. I've never noticed it myself. The most I can remember in that area is getting frustrated with trying to keep the reflections out of them early on.
What I've definitely noticed is that G8 looks more vibrant out of the box in my renders, including the eyes which seem a bit glassy? Vibrant doesn't necessary mean better to me. Something about the surfaces, in general, having a harder light to them. Great for a dramatic effect but not as realistic looking in the way they scatter the light.
Admittedly, I hit Daz up right when G9 dropped, so my comparisons have mostly been me noticing things I like about G9 that I consider subpar in G8. That's mostly in the female mesh/morphs, which are too rigid for me. I guess taking that from the G9 side, that's what people mean when they call it doughy, but coming into Daz when I had the choice between G8 and G9, that was actually what sold me on G9. I suppose it depends on what you're looking for out of a mesh. G9 suits my needs better than G8. I actually think G3 suits them better than G8 too, but I don't have the historical experience with the G3 to G8 switch to be able to articulate why.
I can see the issues with chests and rib cages on women from a technical perspective, but those pale in comparison to the practical realities of using the Venus dolls of G8 as an end user.
On men? Sure, I get it, but a lot more men are a bit flabby there than made of chiselled marble. I think G9 has the potential to support a wider representation of male body shapes in that area. The problem is that almost every G9 man we've had so far - bar some DO's - seem to go for Michaelangelo the weightlifting model rather than Mike Angelo the pastrami fiend, the latter of which is a fairer representation of the men I actually know. And that's where my personal interest in Daz lies - it's the people who surround me in my daily life I tell my stories about.
But back to the eyes. They just a mesh with a texture and shaders. How they've been implemented from a technical perspective is different than on G8, but when you hit the render engine you should be able to give the two equivalence. Unless there's something about the separate mesh that's cause light to leak, I guess. That's one area of G9 I don't like at all - too easy for the eyes to end up posed out of their sockets. Even when that's imperceptible to our human eyes, the render engine will see it. Whether that's enough to cause people problems or whether the eyes just need a new shader to match what people have experience of with G8, I don't know. If it's the latter, then that hardly feels insurmountable.
...that's been an issue with every Daz figure back to the Gen3 days. Even with all the breast utilities we have now, it still is a pain dialling them flat or even near flat to avoid distortion that can affect clothing fits and textures..
As to eye reflections sometimes, with lighting at certain angles I find them bothersome but with G8 cannot find a way to tone them down a bit in full body scenes as they obscure the irises and pupils so it's hard to tell if a character is actually looking in a particular direction.
Of all the generations 8.1 was probably the least interesting in my view It added a bit more distinction to the facial mesh for improved expressions (good for portraits like G9), but the main issue was the change in UV mapping which made "backwards incompatible" with G8. In a way I see it more as a "test bed" for G9.
"Make the eyes right."
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I can understand your frustrations. However G9s eyes are real world accurate. They are meant to look more realistic and 100% done right. They reflect properly. The key to reflections is good lighting. No way around it.
IMO they are the most beautiful eyes yet - https://www.daz3d.com/natural-eyes-9-merchant-resource-for-genesis-9. I use these in my promos all the time.
Could you please recommend some lights set that make G9s eyes looks great?
Thanks.
They are at least a couple of each kind of armours (leather, plate, chainmail) with flat footed boots / non fashion heels for Genesis 9, some of them released alongside Feminine figures.
Imo the only significant improvement that Genesis 9 brings to the table are the skin detail maps. They are the main - if not the only - reason why Genesis 9 looks more realistic in close up renders.
I wish there´d be an easy way to add the "Detail Normal Option" alongside with it´s allready existing normal chanel to the Uber shader.
I know one could simply use the PBR shader for Genesis 8 but i still prefer Uber.
@Artini I gravitate towards indoor studio HDRIS, some of my favorites are https://www.daz3d.com/click-n-render--black-and-white-edition--ibl-set, and https://www.daz3d.com/click-n-render-ibl-set, really any of cakes are great. I prefer to use hdris for the fill light, then add other lighting to compliment it, rim, overhead etc. but these give a great base to start with.
So they're great with your enhancements? Your enhanced version does look great! So maybe that is an answer.
I got into Daz around Victoria 4, so it was possible to get renders that didn't look like bad poser art. In fact a lot of the Victoria 4 figures and Genesis 3 figures still look amazingly good "if" you put in a lot of work and really learn the software inside and out. But the train I was on was photo-realism. I believed I was able to finally purchase that ticket to my satisfaction with Genesis 8 and 8.5. Many of the G9 figures are very nice, but as far as realistic renders there are G7 and G8 figures that look just as good, and many G9 figures that look like Genesis 3 if one were being honest. It really depends on the skill of the PA, and perhaps the quality of promo pic ( I'm no longer inclined to see if a figure is actually better than it's marketing; if you have bad promos now, you've simply lost a sale ).
As far as jumping on the Genesis 9 train, I see no problem with it now that vendors have come out with applications that make it backwards compatible with many of the items I've already purchased.
"So they're great with your enhancements? Your enhanced version does look great! So maybe that is an answer."
Thanks :) I think Daz did a really nice job on the eyes. The modelling is lovely and their textures are beautiful. I had to work extra hard to make mine even remotely comparable. They also did a really great job in making them quick to render while faking certain details (normal maps). Mine are more complex, take a little longer to load and a little longer to render, so its a toss up of what you need vs what you expect. If you do portraits and expect more, than yeah these will more thank likely help. I posted a quick video on youtube on how to use them as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZUUZ7P6774&t=1s
For toon stuff, G9 actually is really great. I didn't want to start over, but I find if I mix Toon Heroes with any character, they instantly look better and how I need them to look. Or there's some great characters like Pixie, Padma Toon, Stylized Girl, etcetera that you can also mix in for fantastic results. So I've been picking stuff up here and there now, but only if I know I 100% will use it instead of just buying stuff just in case like I did with G8. I do a lot of toon animations though, so a lot of the problems folks have with G9 don't apply to what I'm doing. I really haven't tried non-toon stuff in awhile, but when I get a new character, I always load them up and use Joelgecko's photoshoot 1 number 23 to see how they look and they always look leaps and bounds better than the default HDRI from Daz.
Personally, not for me.
This is still just a 'Hobby' for me (a Damn Expensive hobby, but all of the ones I've had throughout my life have been expensive when compared to what I was making at the time)
For me, all the previous models are MORE than enough for me, even if stuff for G8 and before dries up (and thanks to others, I can still pick up some items for G9 and fit them to G8, and then down further if necessary. Not perfect, but good enough for me)
Hell, sometimes I'll go into my Library and say "Huh, when did I buy THAT?", I get so much stuff I tend to forget after installing, simply because it was on sale and I just Might use it someday 9_9