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Daz 3D Introduces dForce Physics Engine

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  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 3,984
    edited October 2017

    the dforce starter essentials should already be in your product library it popped in there like 3-4 days ago so check it depending on how much you've bought in the last couple of days it on page 1or 2 at least that's where I found mine

    https://www.daz3d.com/daz-studio-beta

    Here's a link it' suppose to be part of the Pro Beta Bundle

     

    Post edited by carrie58 on
  • y3kmany3kman Posts: 797

    I find it funny that the old V4 Domino coat can be simulated by adding the dynamic surface modifier. It doesn't even need the weight node. That's way easier than most of the G2 and G3 clothes I tried.

    (I hope Daz releases supermodel looking base figures again. This is V5 and she looks better than V8.)

     

    V5 test.jpg
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  • Silent WinterSilent Winter Posts: 3,721
    edited October 2017
    carrie58 said:

    the dforce starter essentials should already be in your product library it popped in there like 3-4 days ago so check it depending on how much you've bought in the last couple of days it on page 1or 2 at least that's where I found mine

    https://www.daz3d.com/daz-studio-beta

    Here's a link it' suppose to be part of the Pro Beta Bundle

     

    I never had the beta (4.10 is now an official release, yeah?  So it should be part of the DS4.x pro, not just the beta).

    And it's definitely not in the product library for me - guess I'll try 'buying' the beta and see what happens.

    Edit: Yep - showed up when I bought the beta. - Thanks :)

    Hey Daz - if it's a release, put it in the release build ;)

    Post edited by Silent Winter on
  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,885

    Oh.  Okay...

    So I just checked my product library again, and dForce Starter Essentials is listed as being part of the DS 4.x Beta, not part of DS 4.10.  I haven't run the beta in several versions, but I'm guessing those who have it at one time or another "purchased" the beta.  So you may want to try that.  You don't have to install the beta, it just adds it to your product library.

    This may have to get bumped up to someone.  (I'd submit a ticket, but my luck in explaining things to Tech Support is pretty abysmal.  Especially if it's not actually a problem I'm having.)

  • y3kmany3kman Posts: 797

    I don't use betas and the dForce Starter Essentials appeared in my DIM's Ready to Install tab 3 weeks ago.

  • Silent WinterSilent Winter Posts: 3,721
    y3kman said:

    I don't use betas and the dForce Starter Essentials appeared in my DIM's Ready to Install tab 3 weeks ago.

    I don't use DIM ;)

    Daz just needs to add the dforce starter essentials to the Pro bundle, not just the beta, so it shows up in the product library of those who didn't 'buy' the beta.  (which I just did, so I'm good to go now).

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Silent Winter said:
    DaWaterRat said:
    Hera said:
    DaWaterRat said:
    Hera said:

     

    1.5) if using DIM, download and install dForce Essentials.  If using Daz Connect, start DS and install dForce Essentials.

    Works fine until this point, cannot find dForce Essentials. Searching for it in the store it brings me to Michael 7, which is strange since it's designed for V8. Nothing in the DIM. Nothing in the Product library.

    Is the plugin not included in the default Studio 4.1 ???

    I install throgh connect (except the core Das Studio itself), so that's how I installed the dForce Essentials.  I can also find them in my product library under dForce Starter Essentials, so you should be able to manually download from there.  I can also find it in DIM by serching under "starter"

    I'm another one for whom it's just not showing up.

    I've installed 4.10 manually, but can't find dforce starter essentials in any place I look (product library - neither searching for dforce, essentials, or starter) nor in the store.

    Is there a link to a product page?

    Try this one, but you have to be logged in, as it goes to your product library page for dForce Starter Essentials: https://www.daz3d.com/downloader/customer/files#prod_47939

    If that link doesn't work for you, (and you're logged in,) it's time to contact Customer Service.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,056

    It doesn't have a product page. Look for it by looking for your current version of Daz Studio. Search Daz Studio and it should have a link there. Let me go check.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,056

    It is in your product library. Search for Essentials and it should be listed as dForce Starter Essentials. It's not on the Daz Studio page. I was wrong. I don't know if this link will work for you but here https://www.daz3d.com/downloader/customer/files#prod_47939

  • Silent WinterSilent Winter Posts: 3,721
    edited October 2017

    Is everyone keeping tabs open for ages like I do?

    It wasn't in the library until I bought the beta - I've now got it but I had to buy the beta for it to show up.

    I've installed it and it's working great smiley

    It needs adding to 4.x pro bundle by Daz.

    If anyone else can't find it in their product library for manual download - go 'buy' the beta  (it's free) from the link above.

    Post edited by Silent Winter on
  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    edited October 2017
    Mary Baker said:
    Under the Advanced tab in the Simulation Settings tab, there's a menu for selecting your OpenCL device. I had it set to use the 980 card. With that, simulations took upwards of 20 minutes to complete. So just for the sake of it, I switched to the other option that menu offered, which is CPU rather than the GPU (in my case, Apple Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU). Using that, draping takes about four minutes instead of 20. Why? I don't know. I'm not tech savvy enough. But if your NVIDIA card is already up to date and you're seeing dForce run really slowly, take a look and see if switching to CPU makes a difference.

    That sounds to me as if your CPU has the proper OpenCL drivers, but your graphics card might not — remember dForce only works if you have OpenCL1.2, but older hardware (whether CPU or GPU) might still be running OpenCL1.1 unless newer drivers have been installed. Check the links in the "dForce Start Here" thread, that 980Ti you have should be capable of supporting 1.2 with the proper drivers.

    Post edited by SpottedKitty on
  • QuixotryQuixotry Posts: 912
    Mary Baker said:
    That sounds to me as if your CPU has the proper OpenCL drivers, but your graphics card might not — remember dForce only works if you have OpenCL1.2, but older hardware (whether CPU or GPU) might still be running OpenCL1.1 unless newer drivers have been installed. Check the links in the "dForce Start Here" thread, that 980Ti you have should be capable of supporting 1.2 with the proper drivers.

    Ah, okay. That does make sense. Any idea which would be the proper driver for the GPU? The driver manager claims that the card is up to date (Web Driver 378.05.05.25f01). I assumed that would have support for OpenCL 1.2. The only problem with looking at the links in the dForce Start Here thread is that everything shown there is listed as being for Windows or Linux and since I'm working on a Mac, I have no idea which one to grab or whether they'd work. I downloaded the first one on the list and tried to open it, but can't open or use the .cab file.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,056

    You have to go to NVIDIA website and get the proper one

  • MBuschMBusch Posts: 547
    Mary Baker said:
    Mary Baker said:
    That sounds to me as if your CPU has the proper OpenCL drivers, but your graphics card might not — remember dForce only works if you have OpenCL1.2, but older hardware (whether CPU or GPU) might still be running OpenCL1.1 unless newer drivers have been installed. Check the links in the "dForce Start Here" thread, that 980Ti you have should be capable of supporting 1.2 with the proper drivers.

    Ah, okay. That does make sense. Any idea which would be the proper driver for the GPU? The driver manager claims that the card is up to date (Web Driver 378.05.05.25f01). I assumed that would have support for OpenCL 1.2. The only problem with looking at the links in the dForce Start Here thread is that everything shown there is listed as being for Windows or Linux and since I'm working on a Mac, I have no idea which one to grab or whether they'd work. I downloaded the first one on the list and tried to open it, but can't open or use the .cab file.

    I am pretty sure that the latest web driver for macOS 10.12.x (NVIDIA Web Driver 378.05.05.25f01) doesn't speed up the simulation. I am running DS on my Mac Pro (early 2008), Dual Quad-Core 2.8Ghz with NVidia GeForce GTX -1070 and ATI Radeon 5870. Radeon is driving my 2 displays and GTX is reserrved just to rendering. The simulation is very slow compared to DS running on Windows in the same Mac Pro using Bootcamp. Below a table with some benchmarks which shows a very poor simulation perfomance in DS on macOS. Seems to me, that GTX is not being used at all in the simulation o macOS.

    dForce Simultaion Benchmarks
    Scene 01
      macOS 10.12.6 Windows 10 v.1709
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 16:32 1:15
    ATI Radeon HD 5870 9:52 6:13
    Intel Xeon Dua Quad Core 2.8 Ghz 18:42 11:58
    Scene 02
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 37:09 1:51
    ATI Radeon HD 5870 22:56 17:55
    Intel Xeon Dua Quad Core 2.8 Ghz 37:09 32:48
    Scene 01 Scene 02

     

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,462

    Very interesting results, MBusch. Thanks for posting it.

    I were also suspecting, that Windows 10 does some magic, to speed up the simulations.

     

     

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    @DaWaterRat, Here are the results of my testing. First, the all important belt. Take a look at the finished simulation:

    Front and rear view of Vagabond Belt used with Elven Warrior Overtunic, dForce

    I forgot to mention in the image, the belt started scaling down at 25 frames.

    With the Tunic, I exported to OBJ, imported, and tranferred rigging via the Transfer Utility. With the Overtunic, I wanted to preserve the existing movement morphs, so I tweaked using the Joint Editor until I had the Overtunic completely covering G3M, and then Baked Joint Rotations. I transferred the rigging space, changed the Scene Identification to Genesis 3/Male, and then I fit the tunic to G3M. As it turned out, I didn't actually need or use the morphs. lol

    dForce at this point is a lot of trial and error for most of us, not really sure what the various settings actually do. I spent quite a bit of time tweaking settings and running the simulation, over and over and over again. And I learned quite a bit, like bringing the belt into the figure once the pose was complete and the sim was "settling" in.

    In my last post, I talked about Self Collide. Here is a comparison of the lower back of the tunic with Self Collide disabled on the left and with Self Collide enabled on the right. (With it on, it was like the two ends had magnets and were constantly being pulled towards each other.)

    Self Collide disabled vs enabled

    As I also mentioned in my last post, I had to split the body of the tunic into Upper and Lower material zones. I ended up splitting the lower zones into front and back as well. Here is a quick image to compare the original zones with my modified material zones.

    Material zones for the Overtunic, original and my modified zones

    With this tunic, trying to include the sleeves caused the sim to explode. But by painting a low percentage of weight on the shoulders and around the outside edge of the sleeves, I was able to cause the fabric to sit on the skin and avoid the intersecting bits of the underarm area. I left the dForce surface settings to default on the sleeves, with the exceptions of Self Collide OFF and Friction set to the minimum. Using the Node Weight Brush Tool and menu, I filled the sleeves with 0% weight, and then painted in about 20%, as shown in blue in the image below. I did the same for the upper tunic, filling it with 0% weight and painting in the shoulder area. dForce settings were default except I set Friction to 0.50 and Dynamics Strength to 0.50. as well as setting Self Collide to OFF.

    Visual of the Node Weight applied to the Overtunic

    The dForce surface settings for the front and back lower tunic zones are default, with the exception of Self Collide set to OFF. The weight fill for the front is 50% and for the back, 60%. I used the brush to lower the weight on the waistline for the front. For the back, I discover and used a nice menu option: Smooth Selected… With the lower back zone selected, I applied "a smooth factor" of 10% and set "number of iterations" to 20. That produced the nice transition on the back, (easier to see with the full-size image. Just click on it.)

    And here is the final result. (I used a geoshell to create the leather leggings, keeping G3M TOS compliant.)

    The final result from four different angles

    I hope this all makes sense, and that it will help you with your project. Don't worry about how much time I spent on it. It was a real learning experience, and will help me with my own dForce projects later on. (And it helped to have a goal, to keep me focused when I have no idea for my next project!)

  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,885
    L'Adair said:

    @DaWaterRat, Here are the results of my testing. First, the all important belt. Take a look at the finished simulation:

    Front and rear view of Vagabond Belt used with Elven Warrior Overtunic, dForce

    I forgot to mention in the image, the belt started scaling down at 25 frames.

    With the Tunic, I exported to OBJ, imported, and tranferred rigging via the Transfer Utility. With the Overtunic, I wanted to preserve the existing movement morphs, so I tweaked using the Joint Editor until I had the Overtunic completely covering G3M, and then Baked Joint Rotations. I transferred the rigging space, changed the Scene Identification to Genesis 3/Male, and then I fit the tunic to G3M. As it turned out, I didn't actually need or use the morphs. lol

    dForce at this point is a lot of trial and error for most of us, not really sure what the various settings actually do. I spent quite a bit of time tweaking settings and running the simulation, over and over and over again. And I learned quite a bit, like bringing the belt into the figure once the pose was complete and the sim was "settling" in.

    In my last post, I talked about Self Collide. Here is a comparison of the lower back of the tunic with Self Collide disabled on the left and with Self Collide enabled on the right. (With it on, it was like the two ends had magnets and were constantly being pulled towards each other.)

    Self Collide disabled vs enabled

    As I also mentioned in my last post, I had to split the body of the tunic into Upper and Lower material zones. I ended up splitting the lower zones into front and back as well. Here is a quick image to compare the original zones with my modified material zones.

    Material zones for the Overtunic, original and my modified zones

    With this tunic, trying to include the sleeves caused the sim to explode. But by painting a low percentage of weight on the shoulders and around the outside edge of the sleeves, I was able to cause the fabric to sit on the skin and avoid the intersecting bits of the underarm area. I left the dForce surface settings to default on the sleeves, with the exceptions of Self Collide OFF and Friction set to the minimum. Using the Node Weight Brush Tool and menu, I filled the sleeves with 0% weight, and then painted in about 20%, as shown in blue in the image below. I did the same for the upper tunic, filling it with 0% weight and painting in the shoulder area. dForce settings were default except I set Friction to 0.50 and Dynamics Strength to 0.50. as well as setting Self Collide to OFF.

    Visual of the Node Weight applied to the Overtunic

    The dForce surface settings for the front and back lower tunic zones are default, with the exception of Self Collide set to OFF. The weight fill for the front is 50% and for the back, 60%. I used the brush to lower the weight on the waistline for the front. For the back, I discover and used a nice menu option: Smooth Selected… With the lower back zone selected, I applied "a smooth factor" of 10% and set "number of iterations" to 20. That produced the nice transition on the back, (easier to see with the full-size image. Just click on it.)

    And here is the final result. (I used a geoshell to create the leather leggings, keeping G3M TOS compliant.)

    The final result from four different angles

    I hope this all makes sense, and that it will help you with your project. Don't worry about how much time I spent on it. It was a real learning experience, and will help me with my own dForce projects later on. (And it helped to have a goal, to keep me focused when I have no idea for my next project!)

    L'Adair, you are a gentleperson and a scholar!  Thank you so much.  And I actually understand most of it. :)  Once I get a chance to play (assuming I get it working) I'll post my results. :)

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,948

    I have reported the lack of dForce Starter Essentials for those with only Daz Studio 4.x Pro and not the beta.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 9,462
    edited October 2017

    Simple dForce experiment with plane, sphere and the spiral shape.

    image

    spiro02sim02s01Pic01.jpg
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    Post edited by Artini on
  • w_r_brook_ec9f3e956ew_r_brook_ec9f3e956e Posts: 85

    Anyone know what's going on here? I have a G3F figure which uses Cayman Studios V4 legacy UV mappings for G3F. The skirt drapes ok, but does not collide with the hip and leg somehow, which results almost in a breach of modesty for the poor girl. Delete the all legacy surfaces, which I think are implemented as LIEs (?), and the skirt draps just fine, as expected. I've tried selecting the legacy items and adding a 'static surface' modifier - makes no difference. This happens with a range of clothing, not just this, so it's clearly some sort of systemic issue with this legacy UV mapping approach... The figure and skirt positions and all settings are identical for both these simulations - the *only* difference is that I deleted the Cayman legacy items in the latter drape - and it works fine... 

    Screen Shot 2017-10-30 at 18.19.43.png
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    Screen Shot 2017-10-30 at 18.32.30.png
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  • carrie58carrie58 Posts: 3,984
    w_r_brook_ec9f3e956e said:

    Anyone know what's going on here? I have a G3F figure which uses Cayman Studios V4 legacy UV mappings for G3F. The skirt drapes ok, but does not collide with the hip and leg somehow, which results almost in a breach of modesty for the poor girl. Delete the all legacy surfaces, which I think are implemented as LIEs (?), and the skirt draps just fine, as expected. I've tried selecting the legacy items and adding a 'static surface' modifier - makes no difference. This happens with a range of clothing, not just this, so it's clearly some sort of systemic issue with this legacy UV mapping approach... The figure and skirt positions and all settings are identical for both these simulations - the *only* difference is that I deleted the Cayman legacy items in the latter drape - and it works fine... 

    CaymanStudio Legacy UV's use geografts and it was said somewhere there is a issue when using geografts .......

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,948
    carrie58 said:
    w_r_brook_ec9f3e956e said:

    Anyone know what's going on here? I have a G3F figure which uses Cayman Studios V4 legacy UV mappings for G3F. The skirt drapes ok, but does not collide with the hip and leg somehow, which results almost in a breach of modesty for the poor girl. Delete the all legacy surfaces, which I think are implemented as LIEs (?), and the skirt draps just fine, as expected. I've tried selecting the legacy items and adding a 'static surface' modifier - makes no difference. This happens with a range of clothing, not just this, so it's clearly some sort of systemic issue with this legacy UV mapping approach... The figure and skirt positions and all settings are identical for both these simulations - the *only* difference is that I deleted the Cayman legacy items in the latter drape - and it works fine... 

    CaymanStudio Legacy UV's use geografts and it was said somewhere there is a issue when using geografts .......

    Yes, this is said to be fixed in a later build but you mightt ry switching to the Geometry Editor or Node Weightmap Paintbrush tool while draping (it may look funny as it shows the hidden geometry, but you can switch to another tool to render).

  • LeanderLeander Posts: 56
    edited October 2017

    Hurrah, thanks to the patient advice in this thread I've actually got dForce working! Here is a quick render of milord Fabrizio showing off his Contemporary Romeo shirt.

    Shirt.jpg
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    Post edited by Leander on
  • MadaMada Posts: 1,991
    Leander said:

    Hurrah, thanks to the patient advice in this thread I've actually got dForce working! Here is a quick render of milord Fabrizio showing off his Contemporary Romeo shirt.

    Nice :)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212

    That's really gorgeous.  I love the transparency at play with the material... very realistic looking.  I used to have a shirt like that but got ride of it... no see through material on this torso these days!  *Momma, I'm a scared*  ;-)~

  • w_r_brook_ec9f3e956ew_r_brook_ec9f3e956e Posts: 85

    Anyone know what's going on here? I have a G3F figure which uses Cayman Studios V4 legacy UV mappings for G3F. The skirt drapes ok, but does not collide with the hip and leg somehow, which results almost in a breach of modesty for the poor girl. Delete the all legacy surfaces, which I think are implemented as LIEs (?), and the skirt draps just fine, as expected. I've tried selecting the legacy items and adding a 'static surface' modifier - makes no difference. This happens with a range of clothing, not just this, so it's clearly some sort of systemic issue with this legacy UV mapping approach... The figure and skirt positions and all settings are identical for both these simulations - the *only* difference is that I deleted the Cayman legacy items in the latter drape - and it works fine... 

    carrie58 said:
    w_r_brook_ec9f3e956e said:

    Anyone know what's going on here? I have a G3F figure which uses Cayman Studios V4 legacy UV mappings for G3F. The skirt drapes ok, but does not collide with the hip and leg somehow, which results almost in a breach of modesty for the poor girl. Delete the all legacy surfaces, which I think are implemented as LIEs (?), and the skirt draps just fine, as expected. I've tried selecting the legacy items and adding a 'static surface' modifier - makes no difference. This happens with a range of clothing, not just this, so it's clearly some sort of systemic issue with this legacy UV mapping approach... The figure and skirt positions and all settings are identical for both these simulations - the *only* difference is that I deleted the Cayman legacy items in the latter drape - and it works fine... 

    CaymanStudio Legacy UV's use geografts and it was said somewhere there is a issue when using geografts .......

    That makes sense. So I guess wait for Daz to fix it...

  • w_r_brook_ec9f3e956ew_r_brook_ec9f3e956e Posts: 85
    Richard Haseltine said:
    carrie58 said:
    w_r_brook_ec9f3e956e said:

    Anyone know what's going on here? I have a G3F figure which uses Cayman Studios V4 legacy UV mappings for G3F. The skirt drapes ok, but does not collide with the hip and leg somehow, which results almost in a breach of modesty for the poor girl. Delete the all legacy surfaces, which I think are implemented as LIEs (?), and the skirt draps just fine, as expected. I've tried selecting the legacy items and adding a 'static surface' modifier - makes no difference. This happens with a range of clothing, not just this, so it's clearly some sort of systemic issue with this legacy UV mapping approach... The figure and skirt positions and all settings are identical for both these simulations - the *only* difference is that I deleted the Cayman legacy items in the latter drape - and it works fine... 

    CaymanStudio Legacy UV's use geografts and it was said somewhere there is a issue when using geografts .......

    Yes, this is said to be fixed in a later build but you mightt ry switching to the Geometry Editor or Node Weightmap Paintbrush tool while draping (it may look funny as it shows the hidden geometry, but you can switch to another tool to render).

    Thanks. There is a workaround, at least in this case, which is simply to delete the geografts, do the drape, then restore the figure from a previous save (or maybe even with 'undo' - haven't tried that). It works, just a bit clunky. They are only for UV mapping, so the shape is identical.

  • LeanderLeander Posts: 56
    RAMWolff said:

    That's really gorgeous.  I love the transparency at play with the material... very realistic looking.  I used to have a shirt like that but got ride of it... no see through material on this torso these days!  *Momma, I'm a scared*  ;-)~

    Thanks so much RAMWolff and Mada :-)

  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562
    DaWaterRat said:
    Hera said:

    OK, I'm in need of backing the tape beginning, but cannot find a beginning anywhere.

    And with no manuals and with no search function in the forum, one has to make a new beginning.

    So sorry to crash this thread but how do you start Dforce?

    And I ask that the same way as a newbie would ask "How do you start a car," while not even knowing there's something called ignition.

     

    Okay.  you wanted the newbie version:

    1) upgrade to DS 4.10.

    1.5) if using DIM, download and install dForce Essentials.  If using Daz Connect, start DS and install dForce Essentials.

    2) in Scripts->Utilities run "Merge and Update Menus"

    3) Open "Simulation Settings" tab

    4) load G8F and the new outfit (sorry, I'm blanking.  It's in wardrobe under dForce Essentials on the smart content pane)

    5) on the Simulation settings tab, there's a "simulate" button.  Press that.

    The outfit should now drape on G8F

    Anything more than that, I'm going to point you towards Mada's video tutorials for now.

    I just wanted to say...  THANK YOU!

    I have been futzing around with this on and off for days, with no idea where to begin. I couldn't figure out why I wasn't seeing things that other people were describing.

    You were the only one to lay it out simply and point to the all important "Update and Merge" which I had no idea even existed.

  • LiquidWarehouseLiquidWarehouse Posts: 128
    Has anyone managed to overcome exploding garments yet, trying a genesis coat on gen3 (ok a bit of stretch there) but the sleeves explode even when I turn off the simulation on the sleeves.
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