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Tried to improve the render quality with figures in FS. The 5 below are my progress, from left to right.
I experimented with loading bumps. The default bump distance is 1m, so if the figure loads in as 1.8m tall, a white bit on the bump map means a bump of 1m and it looks mighty odd. I could not find a way of specifying the bump magnitude. I tried 'b 0.001', ' bu 0.001', 'bum 0.001', and 'bump 0.001', none of which had an effect. There does not appear to be a way of specifying this in the OBJ file according to Paul Bourke's OBJ file definition. A way around this may be to export the figure with a custom scale of 10 from DS rather than 1% and then scale down in FS. I have not tried it.
Tried a hair texture with an alpha channel to get more strand like hair, to no effect.
I think figures 4 and 5 look an improvement on the default loading. Oh, and yes, they are walking on water. Good what you can do in FS! I just found it easier to find the figures with no terrain visible. The figure used is Adam Thwaites's Adriana, with SWAM's Seema Hair, Oot's mega wardrobe camisole top, Adam Thwaites's denim shorts and Bardot sandals.
Regards,
Richard.
Another option for OBJ import is to pre-render your character/object alpha-ed, and then import as an OBJ billboard instead -- It will cast/receive shadows, but dynamic lighting will not match, so pre-lighting model correctly would help or re-renders with re-imports to match. This saves memory, and allows for bigger scenes to work with (if starting to bog down).
There is a caveat as a single sided plane does not seem to work (although, non-flat, single sided ground geometry works - so it's not a single sided issue), so your best bet is to use a UV-ed cube where front/back gets image (equals - can be seen, and used from either side in FS), and scale on Z axis to zero inside of FS to have a double sided object to use.
Regarding OBJ (.mtl) transparency parameters -- It depends on the rendering engine, and, yes, it seems FS can use the "Tr" designation, but most OBJ exports already export with the "d" transparency designation and FS uses this as well (as with my Blender exported OBJ character billboard cubes). So, if your MTL already has a "d" parameter, it already has a transparency designation - no need to add an additional "Tr" parameter. Complications could arise from having both assigned.
Thaqnk you Richard, but a question about adding the "Tr" to a, for instance, hair prop you want to import into Flowscape....Where do I ad that? I know how to open an MTL file and where the specific file is, but how or where do I add the "Tr"....?
Thanks for all these informations...
6R
StevieC,
In the MTL file look for something like this in the material list:
The last line is the one I added. The material name will correspond to the surface name in DS, so the skull cap of SWAM's Seema Hair is called 'Base' and any parameters affecting it need to be in the paragraph immediately below the material name. If there is a blank line before a parameter, the parameter seems to be ignored because it's not linked to the material name. DaremoK3 suggests above that the 'd 1' line put in by DS should be deleted, and I have to agree, but it appears not to have been a problem in this case.
If someone works out how to use the bump map effectively, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you could share the details. And if you get transparency maps to work too..
Regards,
Richard.
I created a png with an alpha in gimp and loaded it in diffuse in DAZ studio and it worked in Flowscape
Next little discovery:
FlowScape uses Normal Maps and calls them bump maps. Whereas DS users think of the older version of surface displacement bump maps as bump maps. So, if you have a HD figure, and they come with a normal map for the skin, use that if you can. I have Mousso's Rhogue, who comes with a normal map for the skin, and the result was a vast improvement. Figure on the left has a displacement bump map, the figure on the right has a normal bump map from Rhogue. So, if you don't have a normal map, don't try to use a displacement map instead.
Sorry about the black bar, I'm using a tablet, and it won't allow me to delete the code snippet box I used in my last post and saved with the automatic 'Save Draft' facility.
Regards,
Richard.
Well. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong. I use PSP 5, and its handling of PNG files seems a bit of an afterthought. Maybe I'll have to grit my teeth and use gimp. The way it works just gets on my nerves, so I generally avoid it wherever possible.
Regards,
Richard.
WOW ! A big difference ! Thanks...
6R
How did you do that?
Could you post some example, please.
Excellent information on Flowscape, everyone.
Man, 6R, you are killing it -- I love your painterly images!
richardandtracy :
I was too busy earlier, but I wanted to tell you about the bump maps, and why you were having issues trying to set bump parameters like how you can with Daz Studio Shader parameters.
The OBJ format (with MTL) predates video game normal mapping, and originally the bump map designation was for grayscale bump maps, but the render engines/shaders still dictate the parameter settings -- Now, normal mapping for video games (FlowScape) utilizes that bump designation (as you have found out), but normal bump maps are not parameter changeable within software/render/game engines - they have to be preset at time of creation.
With your MTL file, you are being redundant. As I stated in my previous post above, both the "d" and "Tr" parameters can be used for transparency. You have 'transparency' 'transparency' in your MTL file. If your OBJ exporting software does not add the "d" line, then go ahead and either add a "Tr" line or a "d" line -- Both are not needed, and usually (most) software OBJ exporters will add the "d" designation if transparencies are attached in a material shader.
I see you added a displacement map as a bump map -- MTL files can assign a displacement as well, but the receiving engine has to be set up to utilize it, or like a normal map, it is just substituted as is...
And, if you are really using JPG files for your textures, that is where you will run into your transparency issues -- JPG's do not have an alpha channel, and you would need a transparency mask (black/white), but that only works if the engine can utilize this technique, which FS can't. You need to use alpha-ed PNG, or TGA which FS will automatically use the alpha mask embedded inside.
Yeah, I saw the FS author state to use "Tr", but he probably doesn't know the difference -- If you are paying attention, he isn't a real coder, and is using 'U-Script' (that was put together by real coders), and is just assembling this game via nodes which anyone can do if they have the assets, time, and inclination.
Don't get me wrong, he is doing a great job, and I am glad he created it. I just don't think he is a two decade plus veteran of 3D like some of us with knowledge of all the ins-n-outs pertaining to it.
*** One more edit for richardandnancy : If you don't already have irfanView, I would suggest you get it -- It is a free image viewer, and it will show you if your PNG files are truely alpha-ed or not. Go into parameter settings and set default background to something like blue or green (blue/green-screens), and when you load your image, if you can see the background correctly - success -- If not, you know your PNG is corrupted. I know I have a couple of image software that says they create alpha-ed PNG's only to find out otherwise with irfanView before there intended usage -- Hope this helps...
Here is example of using a cube for a character billboard I was referring to in my previous post (notice the character ground shadow) :
* EDIT : For clarification...
not really as PA textures
I basically added an alpha channel and selected by colour and cut the bits the matching opacity map has black, they are usually one colour on the diffuse if it bleeds I use the eraser on the selection instead
can show a thumbnail capture to give an idea
How to convert Daz-style Diffuse+trans jpegs into a single PNG with alpha channel in GIMP:
Open your diffuse and your trans map in GIMP as separate files, not layers of a single file. For your diffuse, right-click the layer and select add alpha channel. Then go to Colors->Components->Decompose; select RGBA as the method, and have decompose to layers checked. That will open a new file tab with 4 layers, the bottom layer is alpha. Go back to your transmap and select all and copy. Paste the copied transmap onto the alpha channel of the decomposed diffuse, and be sure to achor it with CTRL+H. Finally, with the decomposed file tab still active, go to Colors->Components->Recompose. You can then close the decomposed file tab, and the transmap tab. The only remaining tab you should still have open is the original diffuse,but it now has a proper, integrated alpha channel. Now save the file, just make sure you don't save it as a jpeg as that will destroy the alpha channel, PNG is propably best.
There are times when you need to know the point at which to cut your losses. Not convinced that I do, but I have come to the conclusion I need to with the Seema Hair I'm using.
I discovered conclusively PSP 5 was NOT saving a separate alpha channel properly, so went to gimp, and used a method different from the one suggested by stacywallace above, but also worked. I opened the texture file and trans map as different images, copied the trans map, went to the texture map, selected 'Layers|Masks|New Mask' and created an all black mask. Then pasted the trans map already copied into the now transparent image. Having done that the textured cutout image appeared. Finally exported as a PNG.
Anyway, the image below is as a result of my experiments.
On the left is the hair, skull cap transparent, and the transparent outer layers applied. Looks all a bit sparce!
In the middle, the skull cap has been made visible. Looks very odd.
On the right image, the non transparent original texture map applied to the hair. This is what I'm going to use in the future for this hair. Other hair may react differently, so it may be worth trying an experiment or two with your model's hair before taking it over into the final FS image.
Regards,
Richard
yes my method a rough compromise just using the diffuse, hair would take a bit more effort
DaremoK3,
Thanks for the explanation. I had mostly got there by trial, error and reference to Paul Bourke's website. I will bear the idea of a shadow cube in mind, but one user on itch has successfully shown that facets lit from the reverse side shed no shadow, so orienting the cube's normals to get the desired result will take thought.
I took an intermission from 3d figure programs like Poser & DS between 2006 and this March, and my gaming consists of Windows Minesweeper, so I am floundering a bit with current levels of complexity compared to what I originally learnt.
Must admit I had come to the conclusion that PixelForest was using a very high level programming environment, otherwise the speed of changes would be well nigh impossible. I am far from being a professional programmer, being merely a professional engineer who has taught himself C++ as a hobby over the last 20 years (and for about 3 years I effectively earnt my living by using a program I had written, as it made my FEA stress work more competitive when using a 3d FEA modeller I had written). Now, I program in the successor to Borland's C++ Builder, and it makes the linking of events to actions child's play. OK a bit of work needs to be done to get the action to work, but all the grind of windows programming is removed. So, knowing I could potentially be called a 'Node Linker' myself, I rather envy PixelForest his programming environment. However, I would not be happy being unable to program OBJ export, as he was admitted.
Regards,
Richard.
Thanks DareMok3. Yes, I like the effect.
Great, Richard...
6R
Thanks a lot for that info.
Thanks a lot for the explanation.
6R,
Really don't know how you can have such a constant stream of inspiration. Amazing.
Regards,
Richard
stacywallace :
Thank you, for the mini-tut explaining how to add an alpha channel to a non-alpha image. That is great information - Thanks for sharing!
Richard :
It's not you -- FS has transparency issues, and there is a void in how transparencies work and how the FS author is implementing it with his own models loaded through the nodes code snippets vs loading via the OBJ import module. His are clearly double sided billboards where the opaque diffuse is strong at any viewing distance, and transparencies are clean.
I have been working on getting a single imported custom tree to work right in FS via OBJ import, and it has been an uphill battle yielding very poor results (I'll post images later). It even led to discovering a very nasty bug in FS (reproduceable, ver 1.5.1 -- I need to verify in newest version) where if you are working from his single ground plane with no other elements in scene, deleting the OBJ import via the import module delete box will wipe your PNG images clean -- I mean erase all data within the PNG file (header, data, everything) while leaving the actual PNG file in place, but empty at zero kb. I discovered it while simultaneously working with the trees between FS and Blender, and Blender was reporting it couldn't find the PNG files it clearly had loaded with the models (it just loaded empty files with the correct names).
The best version loaded so far has been with double-sided alpha-ed leaf planes, but they only show up if camera is right on top of them -- if you zoom away, the leaves disappear.
For your hair, you can either try working with double-sided polygons (side A equals side B) or use the two objects trick where you duplicate the hair mesh, and invert the normals of the second hair mesh (yields same result as double-sided polygons, but not merged/welded). This might alleviate the patches of holes in your hair -- By default, most of the software we deal with here (DS, Poser, Blender, etc.) render double-sided natively whether OpenGL, or actual rendering, but it does not seem the case with FS's realtime Unity renderer via the nVidia GPU's.
Regarding the guy who successfully reported the facets from the reverse side did not show shadows -- Yeah, I saw that, and rolled my eyes... Of course, no reversed normals will cast/receive shadows. It was user error by someone with no clue to how 3D meshes work, which is the majority of people "playing" this game. Please, do not confuse that with what I presented -- There are no tricks, work-arounds, or need for serious thought on how to make the cube work. The cube is already normals correct (facing outwards - towards the camera), while that guys mesh's normals were facing inward (away from camera).
I don't know if you work in Blender, or any 3D modeling software, but an easy way to check to make sure your normals are correct is Backface Culling. There is a button for it in the Shading module. Backface Culling is how FS is rendering single-sided polygon facets - only normals out (facing camera), while normals in are invisible. For solid meshes like a figure/character this is correct, but for meshes like single-sided polygonal meshes (hair, leaves, etc.) this creates an issue.
Another way to check if your mesh has correct normals is by show facet normals which shows a line emitting from center of facet towards correct normal space - if it faces outward, correct - if it faces inward, incorrect/inverted normals.
Blender 2.80 even added a new way to check normals via color - Blue for correct normals/Red for inverted normals. It's in Overlays/Face Orientation.
As far as coding goes, good to see you are a coder yourself, even if you qualify it as node-coding. I code Blender addons, and it is the single most hardest thing I have ventured into in the last four decades. You would probably get on great with U-Script, and Unity has a free/personal learning version until you are ready to purchase the Pro version the author of FS is using. I thought about it, but I have way too much on my plate to take on another thing.
I suspect the issue with OBJ export is the U-Script coders haven't created the node module yet, or modules that can link together the right outside code (non-GPL) that he could use in his commercial game. I hope it eventually makes its way into the game...
You are welcome, 6R.
If you used that technique on either of your last two images, I can not tell any objects in those scenes are billboards.
Thank you Richard and everyone else for all this information, will have to try and find the time to experiment with all this information!
Getting closer...
I was wrong -- Single-sided polygon planes do load in fine to FlowScape. The issue was I never saw them or could select them due to they load in with normals facing away from default camera (Z forward), so you need to swing around 180 degrees to see/select them.
Disregard trying to create/use double-sided polygons (if you haven't tried, or know how to create them - don't bother), there is a shading anolmaly which make them unsuitable for FS.
Best for double-sided planes is the duplicate plane/inverted normals technique, and then both saved to single OBJ file (if don't know how or what settings need to be in OBJ - ask and I will post details). This also works great for billboard characters, so no need to use a cube if not wanted.
Okay, success at importing an OBJ tree that basically matches outside 3D mesh version...
Using the technique described in previous post was the key for how it looks like FS wants to handle billboard trees, grasses, etc.
3D tree model :
Successful Tree import (mine on left - native FS tree on right) :
Failed Tree import with single-sided alpha-ed leaf planes (leaves visibilty based on closeness) :
* Leaves are not completely opaque - only issue in FS - fine everywhere else -- since fixed to 100% opaque with alpha
*** EDIT : I know the tree sucks -- it is just a first version tester - now, I need to go work on making it better for actual inclusion in work...
Amazing posts, it is only get better and better.
Oh, yes. Could you please elaborate more on how you did them.
Oh ! These last 2 pictures were inspired by an animation movie I just have seen. And I have tried to create something similar.
Unfortunately trees don't have various tones enough (more or less dark !) in FS to have more contrast for the forest.
6R
Imported Daz Horse 2 Unicorn into FlowScape, but manes and tails still don't import transparencies correctly, so added CWRW Manes post work.....will have to do more like these....