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Non-photorealistic Renders (NPR)

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  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    edited December 2017
    tkdrobert said:
    mmitchell_houston said:
    tkdrobert said:

    Fixed a minor comic book law that I just learned about and still broke.

    Star-Blazers Tribute (fix) by tkdrobert

    And what law would that be, friend? Nice work, btw. Colors are nice and the character definitely fits in with the style of the Starblazaers series. Raised leg joins to the hip in a slightly wonky way, but no other obvious problems with this illustration. I like the shading on the planet and space, too. Nice job all around.

     

    I'd have to look up the rule again to get the name, but it's about lines touching and creating the impression that they are connected when they are not.  In the original image, the wing of the left jet is touching the planet in that manner, at least to me, so I corrected it.  The ackward hip is probably from me trying to add an additional morph to the Hiro 4 morph (for G1).  I was trying to make him a little less skinny.  The Hiro morphs are hard to work with IMO.

    Rules schmules - personally, I'm not all that interested in following them. In fact, there's an argument to be made that they need to be broken if one wants to do anything new/unique/inovative.

    - Greg

    Post edited by algovincian on
  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,549
    algovincian said:
    tkdrobert said:
    mmitchell_houston said:
    tkdrobert said:

    Fixed a minor comic book law that I just learned about and still broke.

    Star-Blazers Tribute (fix) by tkdrobert

    And what law would that be, friend? Nice work, btw. Colors are nice and the character definitely fits in with the style of the Starblazaers series. Raised leg joins to the hip in a slightly wonky way, but no other obvious problems with this illustration. I like the shading on the planet and space, too. Nice job all around.

     

    I'd have to look up the rule again to get the name, but it's about lines touching and creating the impression that they are connected when they are not.  In the original image, the wing of the left jet is touching the planet in that manner, at least to me, so I corrected it.  The ackward hip is probably from me trying to add an additional morph to the Hiro 4 morph (for G1).  I was trying to make him a little less skinny.  The Hiro morphs are hard to work with IMO.

    Rules schmules - personally, I'm not interested all that interested in following them. In fact, there's an argument to be made that they need to be broken if one wants to do anything new/unique/inovative.

    - Greg

    "Rules" can always be broken, but in general, they help you avoid mistakes of the past.  You are learning from experienced artists or at least taking their advise.  Once you learn the rules and get some experience of your own, then you can decide which ones to break.  That's my approach for now.  Of course there are always exceptional people who come around and change everything with an innovative approach.  I don't think I'm one fo those people LOL.  

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    edited December 2017

    Finally picked up the Dragonsbane bundle that I've been eyeing since it was released:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dragonsbane-barbarian-bundle

    @Luthbel is known for creating fantastic clothing, but what intrigued me most about this set was the detailed sculpting on the figure, and the awesome hair (including the beard)!

    This test was designed to evaluate how the algorithms rendered the same detail at different scales. Anyway, here he is sans mustache:

    As you can see, the simplification algos gave him a bit of a black eye - the white of his left eye. Not his right eye, but just his left lol . . . doh! The scene is literally the one head/hair/beard plus 3 scaled down instances (so same geometry and textures). I may try the same test with another figure to see if the issue is specific to these eye mats, or something more general that needs addressing.

    - Greg

    barbarian-ink.png
    800 x 800 - 1M
    barbarian.png
    800 x 800 - 1M
    Post edited by algovincian on
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    tkdrobert said:
    algovincian said:
    tkdrobert said:
    mmitchell_houston said:
    tkdrobert said:

    Fixed a minor comic book law that I just learned about and still broke.

    Star-Blazers Tribute (fix) by tkdrobert

    And what law would that be, friend? Nice work, btw. Colors are nice and the character definitely fits in with the style of the Starblazaers series. Raised leg joins to the hip in a slightly wonky way, but no other obvious problems with this illustration. I like the shading on the planet and space, too. Nice job all around.

     

    I'd have to look up the rule again to get the name, but it's about lines touching and creating the impression that they are connected when they are not.  In the original image, the wing of the left jet is touching the planet in that manner, at least to me, so I corrected it.  The ackward hip is probably from me trying to add an additional morph to the Hiro 4 morph (for G1).  I was trying to make him a little less skinny.  The Hiro morphs are hard to work with IMO.

    Rules schmules - personally, I'm not interested all that interested in following them. In fact, there's an argument to be made that they need to be broken if one wants to do anything new/unique/inovative.

    - Greg

    "Rules" can always be broken, but in general, they help you avoid mistakes of the past.  You are learning from experienced artists or at least taking their advise.  Once you learn the rules and get some experience of your own, then you can decide which ones to break.  That's my approach for now.  Of course there are always exceptional people who come around and change everything with an innovative approach.  I don't think I'm one fo those people LOL.  

    I hear what you're saying, and of course there's always plenty to be exposed to and learned from others. Don't ever sell yourself short, though!

    - Greg

  • david_macraedavid_macrae Posts: 109

    @algovincian Wow I really the way your algorithms rendered the beard. I have neber seen transmapped hair that I like in an NPR render. I always use modeled geometry hair as does most animation. But this looks really good. I would be interested to see hoe it moves and flows in an animation.

  • kenmokenmo Posts: 908
    algovincian said:

    CFinally picked up the Dragonsbane bundle that I've been eyeing since it was released:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dragonsbane-barbarian-bundle

    @Luthbel is known for creating fantastic clothing, but what intrigued me most about this set was the detailed sculpting on the figure, and the awesome hair (including the beard)!

    This test was designed to evaluate how the algorithms rendered the same detail at different scales. Anyway, here he is sans mustache:

    As you can see, the simplification algos gave him a bit of a black eye - the white of his left eye. Not his right eye, but just his left lol . . . doh! The scene is literally the one head/hair/beard plus 3 scaled down instances (so same geometry and textures). I may try the same test with another figure to see if the issue is specific to these eye mats, or something more general that needs addressing.

    - Greg

    Very nice. C an I ask what software was used?

  • kenmokenmo Posts: 908
    edited December 2017

    Going for a paintery type of look. Base render was done in Vue Complete with NO Bue NPR settings.

     

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    edited December 2017
    kenmo said:

    Going for a paintery type of look. Base render was done in Vue Complete with NO Bue NPR settings.

     

    This looks fantastic, kenmo - stick it in a kid's book and print it up!

    - Greg

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    kenmo said:
    algovincian said:

    CFinally picked up the Dragonsbane bundle that I've been eyeing since it was released:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dragonsbane-barbarian-bundle

    @Luthbel is known for creating fantastic clothing, but what intrigued me most about this set was the detailed sculpting on the figure, and the awesome hair (including the beard)!

    This test was designed to evaluate how the algorithms rendered the same detail at different scales. Anyway, here he is sans mustache:

    As you can see, the simplification algos gave him a bit of a black eye - the white of his left eye. Not his right eye, but just his left lol . . . doh! The scene is literally the one head/hair/beard plus 3 scaled down instances (so same geometry and textures). I may try the same test with another figure to see if the issue is specific to these eye mats, or something more general that needs addressing.

    - Greg

    Very nice. C an I ask what software was used?

    Thanks, kenmo. DS was used for the analysis passes (custom shaders/scripts), and the rest is home-grown HDR and fractal algorithms. Check out the very first post in this thread for more information, as well as this thread:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/68493/algovincian-non-photorealistic-rendering-npr

    - Greg

  • CrescentCrescent Posts: 328
    edited December 2017

    I'm still working on my PS actions.  I think this one came out pretty well.  The woman's skin is still light compared to the original render, but I'm getting a lot closer to getting a good balance for a variety of skin colors.

    image 

    Test3-Sketch3b.png
    800 x 800 - 1M
    Post edited by Crescent on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,131
    Crescent said:

    I'm still working on my PS actions.  I think this one came out pretty well.  The woman's skin is still light compared to the original render, but I'm getting a lot closer to getting a good balance for a variety of skin colors.

    image 

    looks very nice!

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,549
    algovincian said:

    Finally picked up the Dragonsbane bundle that I've been eyeing since it was released:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dragonsbane-barbarian-bundle

    @Luthbel is known for creating fantastic clothing, but what intrigued me most about this set was the detailed sculpting on the figure, and the awesome hair (including the beard)!

    This test was designed to evaluate how the algorithms rendered the same detail at different scales. Anyway, here he is sans mustache:

    As you can see, the simplification algos gave him a bit of a black eye - the white of his left eye. Not his right eye, but just his left lol . . . doh! The scene is literally the one head/hair/beard plus 3 scaled down instances (so same geometry and textures). I may try the same test with another figure to see if the issue is specific to these eye mats, or something more general that needs addressing.

    - Greg

    Looks great.

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,549
    edited December 2017
    kenmo said:

    Going for a paintery type of look. Base render was done in Vue Complete with NO Bue NPR settings.

     

    I'd say you nailed it.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,549
    edited December 2017
    Crescent said:

    I'm still working on my PS actions.  I think this one came out pretty well.  The woman's skin is still light compared to the original render, but I'm getting a lot closer to getting a good balance for a variety of skin colors.

    image 

    This looks great.  Are you using customs PS actions?  Was the Daz render in IRAY or 3Delight?  I'm interested in your process.

    Post edited by tkdrobert on
  • CrescentCrescent Posts: 328

    They're custom actions that I created in CS 6 though they probably work in earlier versions.  (One of these days I'm going to get PS Elements and see if they're work there as well.)  I removed all the bump maps and displacement from the scene then rendered in iRay with fairly basic settings.  (Bump and displacement can cause a lot of noise when PS actions are used.  Render settings were default, I think, except the Environment Map is at 2.0.)  Once it was good enough (few fireflies) I stopped the render and took it into PS then ran my action.

    Cheers!

  • StarlawStarlaw Posts: 71

    Going for an atmospheric vibrant neon dark look. Challenges positioning the Blind Demon due to the perspective and the well prop.

  • kenmokenmo Posts: 908
    edited December 2017

    The Scolding -  In the tenement living area of a large urban city some where in North American of the 1950s, a youth is scolding his dog for engaging in some rough play with the kitties. His female companion looks on in disbelief, and a local cat hisses displeasure at the incident. While another cat seeks shelter under a parked car.

    This is a digital illustration I created using Vue Complete, Photoshop CC 2018, Topaz Adjust 5, Topaz Studio Impression 2 & Filter Forge 7.

    I did not use any NPR options in Vue Complete. Just rendered to a plain, base render.

     

     

    Post edited by kenmo on
  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,484
    kenmo said:

    The Scolding -  In the tenement living area of a large urban city some where in North American of the 1950s, a youth is scolding his dog for engaging in some rough play with the kitties. His female companion looks on in disbelief, and a local cat hisses displeasure at the incident. While another cat seeks shelter under a parked car.

    This is a digital illustration I created using Vue Complete, Photoshop CC 2018, Topaz Adjust 5, Topaz Studio Impression 2 & Filter Forge 7. I did not use any NPR options in Vue Complete. Just rendered to a plain, base render.

    This is a very cute illustration and I am really captivated by the cartoon style you're using. Nice strong outlines, but not overly strong. I think the strong outline on the boy's shadow is a bit odd. Not bad, but just odd, especially since the outline is not present on the car shadows.

    I really like the body language one the people and the pup, but the girl and the kitties are not contributing to the story. I also have to ask why none of the characters are facing the camera? Yes, you can tell a story with silhouettes and shapes, but in this case, without you telling me the story beforehand, I'm not getting it at all from the composition. The cats look completely indifferent to what's going on. You could fix this by having the girl facing us with a cat cradled in her arms and have the other cowering behind her feet. And the pup should have his head hanging low in shame. I hope I'm not coming off as too critical, because I like what I see. It's just that you have nailed the technique, but the composition is not supporting the story you want to tell. This type of story, and the setting, really remind me of the work of Norman Rockwell (who is the BEST single-image storyteller of the 20th Century).

    Really solid work -- I always enjoy seeing what you do. Thanks so much for sharing it with us, and especially thanks for letting us in on the process.

  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,484
    algovincian said:

    Finally picked up the Dragonsbane bundle that I've been eyeing since it was released:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dragonsbane-barbarian-bundle

    @Luthbel is known for creating fantastic clothing, but what intrigued me most about this set was the detailed sculpting on the figure, and the awesome hair (including the beard)!

    This test was designed to evaluate how the algorithms rendered the same detail at different scales. Anyway, here he is sans mustache:

    As you can see, the simplification algos gave him a bit of a black eye - the white of his left eye. Not his right eye, but just his left lol . . . doh! The scene is literally the one head/hair/beard plus 3 scaled down instances (so same geometry and textures). I may try the same test with another figure to see if the issue is specific to these eye mats, or something more general that needs addressing.

    - Greg

    I adore your treatment of hair. It is simply amazing. Yeah, the black eye is odd. Yeah, the sort of thing you could fix in postwork, but like you, I'd be wondering why it happened. This illustration could go inside any RPG, modern or classic, that I've ever read or played. Excellent work.

  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,484
    edited December 2017
    AlmightyQUEST said:

    I know you said you scrapped this version, but wanted to say that the shadow for the mountain was a good effect. When you first described it a few posts before I thought it would clash or distract from the depth, but this ended up striking a good balance to still look like "bright desert" and also have the sun behind the spire.

    On the caption, it seems readable enough, but if you get a test print and it's tough to read, I think a faded box or light gradient to the top would be better than a solid box with an outline, to keep emphasis on the speech bubble. I haven't been keeping up, but also wanted to say it's been really nice to see the progress and the changes along the way with this! Always cool to see the process.

    Thanks. I was really surprised that the mountain shadow worked as well as it did, too. Very surprised, in fact. It just goes to show that you really can't tell until you put it on paper (or screen, in this case) You are probably right about the text and the scroll box. I will probably try the method you suggested, and the scroll, and then compare the two. 

    I am still working on the splash page, but I thought I'd put the old version next to the intermediate (WIP) version I'm on now. The first thing I noticed is that when I tried to correct the angle of the shadow so that it better matched the sun placement, the mountain shadow stopped working as well. So I am going to move the shadow and add more ground speckle. 

     

    OLD VERSION

     

     

    NEW VERSION

     

    DaysGone03_12-06-2017.jpg
    2752 x 4200 - 4M
    Post edited by mmitchell_houston on
  • kenmokenmo Posts: 908
    mmitchell_houston said:
    kenmo said:

    The Scolding -  In the tenement living area of a large urban city some where in North American of the 1950s, a youth is scolding his dog for engaging in some rough play with the kitties. His female companion looks on in disbelief, and a local cat hisses displeasure at the incident. While another cat seeks shelter under a parked car.

    This is a digital illustration I created using Vue Complete, Photoshop CC 2018, Topaz Adjust 5, Topaz Studio Impression 2 & Filter Forge 7. I did not use any NPR options in Vue Complete. Just rendered to a plain, base render.

    This is a very cute illustration and I am really captivated by the cartoon style you're using. Nice strong outlines, but not overly strong. I think the strong outline on the boy's shadow is a bit odd. Not bad, but just odd, especially since the outline is not present on the car shadows.

    I really like the body language one the people and the pup, but the girl and the kitties are not contributing to the story. I also have to ask why none of the characters are facing the camera? Yes, you can tell a story with silhouettes and shapes, but in this case, without you telling me the story beforehand, I'm not getting it at all from the composition. The cats look completely indifferent to what's going on. You could fix this by having the girl facing us with a cat cradled in her arms and have the other cowering behind her feet. And the pup should have his head hanging low in shame. I hope I'm not coming off as too critical, because I like what I see. It's just that you have nailed the technique, but the composition is not supporting the story you want to tell. This type of story, and the setting, really remind me of the work of Norman Rockwell (who is the BEST single-image storyteller of the 20th Century).

    Really solid work -- I always enjoy seeing what you do. Thanks so much for sharing it with us, and especially thanks for letting us in on the process.

    Thank you very much for the comments. I really appreciate your tips and critics. Norman Rockwell is one of my all time favorite artists, however I was going more for a Will Eisner type of look & feel. I recently read a couple of his graphic novels and the book "A Contract With God" blew me away...

    I suspect when I retire (perhaps early next year) I'll have more time for my digital art and photography... Since I work as a sys admin for a living, during the summer I tend to spend more time with my photography at car shows and landscapes & scenes. I own a 1960 Corvette which I restored in 1983. The winters in Canada are long. When I'm not watching NHL hockey, I'm doodling on my computer...

    Cheers & many thanks..

     

  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,484
    kenmo said:
    mmitchell_houston said:
    kenmo said:

    The Scolding -  In the tenement living area of a large urban city some where in North American of the U.S.S.R., a youth is scolding his dog for engaging in some rough play with the kitties. His female companion looks on in disbelief, and a local cat hisses displeasure at the incident. While another cat seeks shelter under a parked car.

    This is a digital illustration I created using Vue Complete, Photoshop CC 2018, Topaz Adjust 5, Topaz Studio Impression 2 & Filter Forge 7. I did not use any NPR options in Vue Complete. Just rendered to a plain, base render.

    This is a very cute illustration and I am really captivated by the cartoon style you're using. Nice strong outlines, but not overly strong. I think the strong outline on the boy's shadow is a bit odd. Not bad, but just odd, especially since the outline is not present on the car shadows.

    I really like the body language one the people and the pup, but the girl and the kitties are not contributing to the story. I also have to ask why none of the characters are facing the camera? Yes, you can tell a story with silhouettes and shapes, but in this case, without you telling me the story beforehand, I'm not getting it at all from the composition. The cats look completely indifferent to what's going on. You could fix this by having the girl facing us with a cat cradled in her arms and have the other cowering behind her feet. And the pup should have his head hanging low in shame. I hope I'm not coming off as too critical, because I like what I see. It's just that you have nailed the technique, but the composition is not supporting the story you want to tell. This type of story, and the setting, really remind me of the work of Norman Rockwell (who is the BEST single-image storyteller of the 20th Century).

    Really solid work -- I always enjoy seeing what you do. Thanks so much for sharing it with us, and especially thanks for letting us in on the process.

    Thank you very much for the comments. I really appreciate your tips and critics. Norman Rockwell is one of my all time favorite artists, however I was going more for a Will Eisner type of look & feel. I recently read a couple of his graphic novels and the book "A Contract With God" blew me away...

    I suspect when I retire (perhaps early next year) I'll have more time for my digital art and photography... Since I work as a sys admin for a living, during the summer I tend to spend more time with my photography at car shows and landscapes & scenes. I own a 1960 Corvette which I restored in 1983. The winters in Canada are long. When I'm not watching NHL hockey, I'm doodling on my computer...

    Cheers & many thanks..

    A Contract with God blew my mind when I read it! It is a FANTASTIC book, in every way imaginable. The layout, the stories, everything about it is so good. It is probably one of the most influential books I've ever read in terms of his storytelling techniques. Have you read Dropsie Avenue? It doesn't quite have the narrative depth of A Contract with God,  but Eisner is at the top of his form in that book, too.

    If you're a fan of Norman Rockwell, I highly recommend the book, Norman Rockwell: My Adventures as an Illustrator. In it he discusses how he looked at art and used his images to tell stories (available cheap online and at used bookstores). That's what I was referring to in my comments (btw: I do get a bit of an Eisner vibe from your work here): How to use the composition to tell the story. Story is something I obsess with, particularly in single images (as opposed to sequential/comic story art). Body language, placement of figures, and so-forth can convey what's happening without text.

    Thanks again for sharing your work with us.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,613
    david_macrae said:

    @algovincian Wow I really the way your algorithms rendered the beard. I have neber seen transmapped hair that I like in an NPR render. I always use modeled geometry hair as does most animation. But this looks really good. I would be interested to see hoe it moves and flows in an animation.

    Thanks, David. Funny you should mention hair moving/flowing, as I've been spending most of my free time these days playing with some new techniques to create hair that plays well with dForce!

    - Greg

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987

    gah 36 posts since I visited!

    this is a good finalised- the whole sits well together - the others were working in most parts but not all

     

    mmitchell_houston said:

    Revisited and finalized the Derringer Illustration I showed you a while back.

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    tkdrobert said:

    Fixed a minor comic book law that I just learned about and still broke.

    Star-Blazers Tribute (fix) by tkdrobert

    nice style, were you talking about the 'tangent' caused by the rocket stream on the left ? both look fine I think.

     

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    Sammy_jr_mart said:

    A concept art, part of my comic

    just loose enough - love the grungy back ground

     

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    mmitchell_houston said:

    Latest update. I decided to add more detail and a shadow from the spire. Thoughts?

    Do you think the caption should be inside a box or scroll?

    EDIT: I have scrapped this version. The highlights and shadows were all in the wrong places. I'm keeping the tone layers and reapplying them.

    I know you scrapped this version - the caption looks fine - a bit raggedy but I think it works.

    I think the consstant stippling across the landscape is reducing the sens of distance though - maybe a graduated overlay to reduce the contrast of the stipple in the distance - also for a while I was having trouble with the size of the tree bottom right but that seems to have ameliorated with the change in tonal values in other areas??

     

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    nonesuch00 said:
    head wax said:

    Carrara job - Runaway Stagecoach - wip filter forge photodonut and Topaz Impression for post

     

    Very nice. Are the reins & harness from a DAZ Store product? 

    thank you - I am scratching my head, they might have come for the old Charger here? or been included with a coach somewhere - whatever they were, they didn't fit very well - I will have a look and get back when I find them

     

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    mmitchell_houston said:
    head wax said:

    Carrara job - Runaway Stagecoach - wip filter forge photodonut and Topaz Impression for post

    WOWZA, man! This is a very intense impressionist style. Loving the bold colors and the sense of motion you have captured. The simplicity of the horizon is simply fantastic, and the hints of grass in thr foreground really set the scene, even without much detail being present. I do miss the drivers though (yeah, I know it's a runaway stagecoach, but this scene just calls out for two guys riding on top). I'm very impressed with this style. 

    thanks :) I was lazy about the driver .... should redo it !!  It was a quickie while I was supposed to be doing work.......

     

  • HeadwaxHeadwax Posts: 9,987
    algovincian said:

    Finally picked up the Dragonsbane bundle that I've been eyeing since it was released:

    https://www.daz3d.com/dragonsbane-barbarian-bundle

    @Luthbel is known for creating fantastic clothing, but what intrigued me most about this set was the detailed sculpting on the figure, and the awesome hair (including the beard)!

    This test was designed to evaluate how the algorithms rendered the same detail at different scales. Anyway, here he is sans mustache:

    As you can see, the simplification algos gave him a bit of a black eye - the white of his left eye. Not his right eye, but just his left lol . . . doh! The scene is literally the one head/hair/beard plus 3 scaled down instances (so same geometry and textures). I may try the same test with another figure to see if the issue is specific to these eye mats, or something more general that needs addressing.

    - Greg

     

    you'd swear this was hand drawn - it's absolutely brilliant - if you market this I am swapping to daz studio........ but you'll put a lot of traditional illustrators out of work - a double edged sword

     

This discussion has been closed.