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Anime Toons and Filatoon Shader Q&A

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  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940
    edited October 17

    Does anyone know what this "Filatoon - Outline"  preset is supposed to do?  The selected parts turn black when I use it.  See video - I first apply the Base preset, then Undo, then I apply the Outline preset, and undo. DS 4.23.0.1 GR.

    https://app.screencast.com/VzCuPdr7NoH6V

     

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,516

    andolaurina said:

    My Filament renders are blurry/pixelated. Anyone else have that problem or know how to fix it? Or is this as good as it gets? See attached.

    Did you try adjusting the anit-aliasing: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8912036/#Comment_8912036

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,516

    daznoob said:

    Normally just a lurker here, and maybe I missed this, but I read through the thread and haven't seen the exact issue:

    If any outline shader is applied, I get a black, glossy texture over the whole surface.  Applies to the character skin as well as clothing.  Disabling the outline on the specific surface lets me see the texture again.  Used the default toon environment with distant light, filament, etc.

    Even tried uninstalling and reinstalling all G9 essentials (3 parts), the 2 G9 default items, etc. via DIM.  Same results.  Messed with offset in the outline parameters, but it just looks like you're scaling a "shell" over the whole item.

    I just use this stuff for fun so no big deal and no lost commissions/work or anything like that.  Just wondering what the culprit might be.

     

    Thanks!  And otherwise looks really cool!  Seeing everyone's renders makes me want to play with this some more.

     

    Are you using the latest version of Daz Studio? It doesn't look right on older versions of Daz Studio. Filatoon also doesn't work with Mac, if you're on a Mac.

  • MadaMada Posts: 1,989
    edited October 17

    Taoz said:

    Does anyone know what this "Filatoon - Outline"  preset is supposed to do?  The selected parts turn black when I use it.  See video - I first apply the Base preset, then Undo, then I apply the Outline preset, and undo. DS 4.23.0.1 GR.

    https://app.screencast.com/VzCuPdr7NoH6V

     

    I noticed that last night too when adding shaders to an old outfit - going into presets and then applying one of the presets like skin or general fixed it for me. I tend to just use the presets because it will add an outline if there's none

    Post edited by Mada on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 6,969

    Taoz said:

    Does anyone know what this "Filatoon - Outline"  preset is supposed to do?  The selected parts turn black when I use it.  See video - I first apply the Base preset, then Undo, then I apply the Outline preset, and undo. DS 4.23.0.1 GR.

    https://app.screencast.com/VzCuPdr7NoH6V

     

    Outline preset just change Base Color to Black and Opacity to 1... so this Preset is meant to be usex on the surface of Shell rather than the figure.

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  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940
    edited October 17

    Mada said:

    Taoz said:

    Does anyone know what this "Filatoon - Outline"  preset is supposed to do?  The selected parts turn black when I use it.  See video - I first apply the Base preset, then Undo, then I apply the Outline preset, and undo. DS 4.23.0.1 GR.

    https://app.screencast.com/VzCuPdr7NoH6V

     

    I noticed that last night too when adding shaders to an old outfit - going into presets and then applying one of the presets like skin or general fixed it for me. I tend to just use the presets because it will add an outline if there's none

    None of that seems to fix it for me.  I also find it strange that it's called "Filatoon - Outline" as it doesn't add an Outline Shell, like the "Add Outline" preset does. 

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,516

    Taoz said:

    Mada said:

    Taoz said:

    Does anyone know what this "Filatoon - Outline"  preset is supposed to do?  The selected parts turn black when I use it.  See video - I first apply the Base preset, then Undo, then I apply the Outline preset, and undo. DS 4.23.0.1 GR.

    https://app.screencast.com/VzCuPdr7NoH6V

     

    I noticed that last night too when adding shaders to an old outfit - going into presets and then applying one of the presets like skin or general fixed it for me. I tend to just use the presets because it will add an outline if there's none

    None of that seems to fix it for me.  I also find it strange that it's called "Filatoon - Outline" as it doesn't add an Outline Shell, like the "Add Outline" preset does. 

    I believe that @crosswind is probably correct, in that it's meant to be a shader to be used on the geometry shell outline and not the figure itself. 

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    3Diva said:

    Taoz said:

    Mada said:

    Taoz said:

    Does anyone know what this "Filatoon - Outline"  preset is supposed to do?  The selected parts turn black when I use it.  See video - I first apply the Base preset, then Undo, then I apply the Outline preset, and undo. DS 4.23.0.1 GR.

    https://app.screencast.com/VzCuPdr7NoH6V

     

    I noticed that last night too when adding shaders to an old outfit - going into presets and then applying one of the presets like skin or general fixed it for me. I tend to just use the presets because it will add an outline if there's none

    None of that seems to fix it for me.  I also find it strange that it's called "Filatoon - Outline" as it doesn't add an Outline Shell, like the "Add Outline" preset does. 

    I believe that @crosswind is probably correct, in that it's meant to be a shader to be used on the geometry shell outline and not the figure itself. 

    That's exactly what it is. A shader for use on the geometry shell.

  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,406

    Taoz said:

    Mada said:

    Taoz said:

    Does anyone know what this "Filatoon - Outline"  preset is supposed to do?  The selected parts turn black when I use it.  See video - I first apply the Base preset, then Undo, then I apply the Outline preset, and undo. DS 4.23.0.1 GR.

    https://app.screencast.com/VzCuPdr7NoH6V

     

    I noticed that last night too when adding shaders to an old outfit - going into presets and then applying one of the presets like skin or general fixed it for me. I tend to just use the presets because it will add an outline if there's none

    None of that seems to fix it for me.  I also find it strange that it's called "Filatoon - Outline" as it doesn't add an Outline Shell, like the "Add Outline" preset does. 

    I think it's because it's just to have a separate item that is just the special outline shader. Not sure when it'd be used on anything but a geoshell, but maybe someone will figure out a creative trick to do with it.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940

    barbult said:

    3Diva said:

    Taoz said:

    Mada said:

    Taoz said:

    Does anyone know what this "Filatoon - Outline"  preset is supposed to do?  The selected parts turn black when I use it.  See video - I first apply the Base preset, then Undo, then I apply the Outline preset, and undo. DS 4.23.0.1 GR.

    https://app.screencast.com/VzCuPdr7NoH6V

     

    I noticed that last night too when adding shaders to an old outfit - going into presets and then applying one of the presets like skin or general fixed it for me. I tend to just use the presets because it will add an outline if there's none

    None of that seems to fix it for me.  I also find it strange that it's called "Filatoon - Outline" as it doesn't add an Outline Shell, like the "Add Outline" preset does. 

    I believe that @crosswind is probably correct, in that it's meant to be a shader to be used on the geometry shell outline and not the figure itself. 

    That's exactly what it is. A shader for use on the geometry shell.

    Oh, OK.  Thanks everyone. 

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940
    edited October 17

    3Diva said:

    MarcCCTx said:

    Working on some old figures.  Can anyone confirm is you reapply a shader, does it resize the black line? I was changing to filadtoon-base to the skin or the hair and it seemed to change the toon-outline's mesh offset to .10 (too small to show.)

    image

    I'm not sure if it reapplies the default line width, but it likely does. One thing that can help with the jaggy lies though is to select the Filament Draw Options node in the Scene Tab and then in the Parameters Tab select "Anti-Aliasing" and increase the sample count. I bump it up to around 75 for mine and it helps smooth the outline.

    Mmm, not seeing that "Filament Draw Options" node on the Scene tab? 

    Post edited by Taoz on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,516
    edited October 17

    Taoz said:

    3Diva said:

    MarcCCTx said:

    Working on some old figures.  Can anyone confirm is you reapply a shader, does it resize the black line? I was changing to filadtoon-base to the skin or the hair and it seemed to change the toon-outline's mesh offset to .10 (too small to show.)

    image

    I'm not sure if it reapplies the default line width, but it likely does. One thing that can help with the jaggy lies though is to select the Filament Draw Options node in the Scene Tab and then in the Parameters Tab select "Anti-Aliasing" and increase the sample count. I bump it up to around 75 for mine and it helps smooth the outline.

    Mmm, not seeing that "Filament Draw Options" on the Scene tab? 

    You can load one manually or I believe also one might load when you apply the FilaToon Environment.

     

    Manual load can be done from Create >> New Filament Draw Options Node:

    Or from your content library, the FilaToon Environment can be loaded from People >> Genesis 9 Toon >> Basic Filatoon Environment:

     

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    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • GordigGordig Posts: 10,056

    Taoz said:

    Mmm, not seeing that "Filament Draw Options" node on the Scene tab? 

    You need to add one from the Create menu.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940

    OK, thanks!

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940
    edited October 17

    Now it's beginning to look like something.


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    Post edited by Taoz on
  • wsterdanwsterdan Posts: 2,346

    Mada said:

    Mark_e593e0a5 said:

    If I undrestand this correctly, the shaders only work in Filament render mode - which is not available at all on Mac up until current 4.22 version. Mac users have been instructed NOT to upgrade to 4.23, so I cannot check if it has been made avilable - suppose it isn't. I really like the look of the shaders, but they seem to be not useable for me. Please tell me I am wrong.

    Unfortunately you are correct - but there are work going on behind the scenes to get it out to mac users as soon as possible. The shader relies on filament to work properly.

    Well, it's true that they're working behind the scenes to get it out to Mac users, but I've been waiting almost a full four years now for Filament on the Mac and it won't be availble until Daz Studio 5 comes out. I'm not holding my breath.

    Thanks for this thread, though, it's exciting to see what's being done for those who can use it.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,516

    @Toaz CUTE! Cookie looks so good with FilaToon! 

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 9,940

    3Diva said:

    @Toaz CUTE! Cookie looks so good with FilaToon! 

    Yes, it's a really great tool! 

  • Llola LaneLlola Lane Posts: 9,343
    edited October 17

    Ok.. I'll join in the fun... been playing with Filament... Does anyone know HOW to do DOF?  I can't seem to do it with the camera... I wanted the background blurry to bring out the character more.  This is Aiko 5 with a bunch of morphs and expressions.

     

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    Post edited by Llola Lane on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,244

    Taoz said:

    Now it's beginning to look like something.


    yes cute!

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,516

    Llola Lane said:

    Ok.. I'll join in the fun... been playing with Filament... Does anyone know HOW to do DOF?  I can't seem to do it with the camera... I wanted the background blurry to bring out the character more.  This is Aiko 5 with a bunch of morphs and expressions.

    Lovely render!

    I don't think Filament can do Depth of Field. To get the focus off the background and on the figure you can try a "fade out" of the background by making the background surfaces an Emission surface in the Surfaces Tab. 

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,212

    elsephster said:

    Elor said:

    I'm likely still missing something.

    I think I put something like 200000 lumens, but it only started having a visible impact once I got the spotlight close enough:

    I ran into the same problem but then I finally found the Ray Length setting under Display was the solution. I have no idea why this is under Display instead of Light, but at least it worked. The default setting is only 2.5, which is very short. 

     

    in the Filament Draw environment settings, crank up scene light and distant light as needed

  • Llola LaneLlola Lane Posts: 9,343

    3Diva said:

    Llola Lane said:

    Ok.. I'll join in the fun... been playing with Filament... Does anyone know HOW to do DOF?  I can't seem to do it with the camera... I wanted the background blurry to bring out the character more.  This is Aiko 5 with a bunch of morphs and expressions.

    Lovely render!

    I don't think Filament can do Depth of Field. To get the focus off the background and on the figure you can try a "fade out" of the background by making the background surfaces an Emission surface in the Surfaces Tab. 

    Ok.. I think I understand that... I'll give it a try :)  If worse comes to worse I can always render the background and girl separate.. then merge them together... but DOF looks more realistic

  • ElorElor Posts: 1,483

    Llola Lane said:

    Ok.. I think I understand that... I'll give it a try :)  If worse comes to worse I can always render the background and girl separate.. then merge them together... but DOF looks more realistic

    That's how I did it for my Magic Broom render to get motion blur on the island: one render for the island, one for the witch and her broom (well more than one because I did one render per pokethrough to solve). Then, I applied motion blur on the island layer in Affinity Photo.

    It did take a bit of time because I closed Daz Studio before merging all the layers and did it a couple of time before deciding to keep the scene open until I was satisfied (and the machine I'm using to render FilaToon has all the content on a mechanical hard drive, has an old Core i7 4790K, so loading times are not short crying).

  • Llola LaneLlola Lane Posts: 9,343

    Elor said:

    Llola Lane said:

    Ok.. I think I understand that... I'll give it a try :)  If worse comes to worse I can always render the background and girl separate.. then merge them together... but DOF looks more realistic

    That's how I did it for my Magic Broom render to get motion blur on the island: one render for the island, one for the witch and her broom (well more than one because I did one render per pokethrough to solve). Then, I applied motion blur on the island layer in Affinity Photo.

    It did take a bit of time because I closed Daz Studio before merging all the layers and did it a couple of time before deciding to keep the scene open until I was satisfied (and the machine I'm using to render FilaToon has all the content on a mechanical hard drive, has an old Core i7 4790K, so loading times are not short crying).

    Thanks Elor ... I may just try that... I did try to "get the focus off the background and on the figure you can try a "fade out" of the background by making the background surfaces an Emission surface in the Surfaces Tab."  But all it did was white out the building... I'm probably doing it wrong.. I'll try more tomorrow.. Past 3am for me now :) 

  • MoogeeMoogee Posts: 43
    edited October 17

    Llola Lane said:

    Ok.. I'll join in the fun... been playing with Filament... Does anyone know HOW to do DOF?  I can't seem to do it with the camera... I wanted the background blurry to bring out the character more.  This is Aiko 5 with a bunch of morphs and expressions.

     

     

     

    you could try basic depth map maker using iray canvas - theres a run through video on the product page.  

    Post edited by Moogee on
  • SapphireBlueSapphireBlue Posts: 959
    edited October 17

    I posted this in the other filatoon thread, and thought it might be better putting it here in the Q and A:

    I was looking closely at the promo images to see how some of the trees and grass were modeled in the new toon anime high school set. And those do use transmap planes. If there's a way to achieve the final render result with the Filatoon shaders, that'd be awesome for converting other sets for toon use. Does anyone have any ideas how this was achieved? 

    Here are the grey box and render promo images for the anime high school:

     

    Post edited by SapphireBlue on
  • TesseractSpaceTesseractSpace Posts: 1,406

    Having checked, the grass and trees use black and white transmaps, which makes sense as Filament reacts badly to anything but pure black and white transmaps. The trees don't have outline shells, and the outline geoshell on the school has the grass turned off.

  • acceptableusernameacceptableusername Posts: 1

    Mada said:

    daznoob said:

    Normally just a lurker here, and maybe I missed this, but I read through the thread and haven't seen the exact issue:

    If any outline shader is applied, I get a black, glossy texture over the whole surface.  Applies to the character skin as well as clothing.  Disabling the outline on the specific surface lets me see the texture again.  Used the default toon environment with distant light, filament, etc.

    Even tried uninstalling and reinstalling all G9 essentials (3 parts), the 2 G9 default items, etc. via DIM.  Same results.  Messed with offset in the outline parameters, but it just looks like you're scaling a "shell" over the whole item.

    I just use this stuff for fun so no big deal and no lost commissions/work or anything like that.  Just wondering what the culprit might be.

     

    Thanks!  And otherwise looks really cool!  Seeing everyone's renders makes me want to play with this some more.

     

    Are you using the latest Daz Studio? The filament engine has undergone a lot of changes from earlier versions :)

     

    Hahah...hooo, holy crap.  I do a lot of tech support so I know fully well how often we just make dumb mistakes.  That was a doozy.

     

    I'd figured, hey, I always update via DIM and had double checked that it was listed there as the current version...

    ...but I still had a shortcut to an old version pinned to my taskbar and it's also what showed up when I hit [Start] and type Daz.  But apparently I was launching 4.15 still and I am a dingus.  But that's OK because everyone is a dingus sometimes and this one wasn't regarding anything important.

     

    Cheers and thanks for pointing out the obvious laugh

  • SapphireBlueSapphireBlue Posts: 959

    Thanks TesseractSpace! That's useful to know about the pure black and white transmaps. I was just experimenting - and yes, it makes sense that they just turned off the outline geoshell on the grass. That's one way to get around it I guess.

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