Anime Toons and Filatoon Shader Q&A

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  • CES3DCES3D Posts: 100

    mjdoubledcom said:

    CES3D said:

    GRFK DSGN Unlimited said:

    Just out of curiosity, what is the essentials update supposed to fix? What issues were addressed since the last update in October?

    You can find the details of the updates provided on November 19, 2024 for "Genesis 9 Starter Essentials" under "Resolved Issues" on this page.
    Here are the details:

    2024-11-19 Updated:

    • Corrected aliases that were causing issues in the log.
    • Updated Toon Layers Swap.dse utility script
    • Updated Toon Hair morphs
    • Updated G9 Anime Nipples presets
    • Updated morph icons
    • Added Eyelash morph icons
    • Added Create Properties on Followers.dse, Hair Blank Morph Template Load.dse, and INFO scripts to Developer Tools Pane
    • Updated Metadata
    • updates sub division level limit to 4

    Yeah, I had previously checked that and according to that log, the file Daz is claiming it is looking for isn't even listed as a file. So, that doesn't help.

    Also, since this Windows install is fresh, and the only thing installed on it are Daz programs, I just restored back to a few days ago when I first installed Windows, Installed DIM and had it install all Daz content. Started Daz Studio, tried to add Genesis 9 Toon to the scene and Daz Studio crashed, it gave me a new error, "DAZStudio.exe caused ACCESS_VIOLATION in module "C:\Program Files\DAZ 3D\DAZStudio4\dzfilamentapi.dll"" According to the Internet that means there is some residual Daz info somewhere from the previous install, which shouldn't be the case as I refreshed Windows back to how it was when Windows was first installed. So, anyways, I refreshed again, ran a cleaner that made sure there wasn't a single file or registry key that wasn't from the original Windows install, then installed all the Daz content again, and got the same error.

    So, I'm going to blow off the hard drive and re-install Windows all over again, and once again install only Daz and see what happens. If another error exists, I'm just going to stop trying to deal with this for a while until Daz gets itself sorted out.

    So, I may update this post once with the results, but maybe not.
    Thanks,
    J.

    Even after formatting your HDD, performing a clean Windows installation, and installing DAZ Studio with essential assets such as Genesis 9 Starter Essentials and Default Resources for DAZ Studio 4.23+ and etc., if the error persists, it may be indicative of a hardware problem.
    In such a case, I recommend running a check disk (CHKDSK) to diagnose the issue further.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,658
    edited November 2024

    mjdoubledcom said:

    3Diva said:

    mjdoubledcom said:

    Hi,

    So, I had computer issues and ended up doing a fresh Windows install. Last night I finished installing all the Daz content and decided to play with the G9 Toons, since I have an extensive collection of G8 content I've been reluctent to switch. Well when adding the Genesis 9 Toon Feminine it said it couldn't find FilaToon - Base.dsf and FilaToon - Outline.dsf

    From the Log:
    [WARNING] :: Could not resolve: /data/DAZ 3D/Built-in Content/FilaToon/FilaToon - Base.dsf
    [WARNING] :: Could not resolve: /data/DAZ 3D/Built-in Content/FilaToon/FilaToon - Outline.dsf

    I checked and it is missing, I decided to manually install them, so today November 18th, at 11:21pm EST I manually downloaded the Genesis 9 Starter Essentials, then purchased and downloaded Genesis 9 Toon Essential Shapes Bundle, unzipped them and looked through the folders and sure enough those two files aren't there.

    Even stranger is how that after searching the internet it looks like nobody has had this issue.

    Any idea why they are is missing and how to get them?
    Any other ideas are welcome too.

    Thanks, J.

    Hi, J. Did you make sure to install all three of the Genesis 9 Starter Essentials? https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8933401/#Comment_8933401

    Yep. Installed all three in the install manager, removed reinstalled, it still gave me the error so I manually downloaded them, unzipped them and looked for the files, and they weren't there. So I re-downloaded the three files, unzipped them again, and sure enough those two files are not in there.

    Hold up, I just checked the DIM again and it has a different file size. Do you have a Mac? Otherwise there is an issue where the update from October isn't universally updating the source files.

    As Richard pointed out earlier https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8962401/#Comment_8962401 It sounds like those shaders are in the Default Resources, did you make sure to have those installed?

    CaptureDELETE.PNG
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    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,408

    Earlier in the thread someone mentioned how to fake Depth of Field effects with camera dependant planes. Or at least I think they did. If so, can someone run that by me again?

  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 1,075
    edited November 2024
    vrba79 said:

    Earlier in the thread someone mentioned how to fake Depth of Field effects with camera dependant planes. Or at least I think they did. If so, can someone run that by me again?

    I think they meant something like Atmospheres for Filament, where you have a bunch of partially transparent planes facing the camera to fake distance fog.

    Not quite the same as actual depth of field, for that you'd need to blur the background in an image editor (highly recommend looking into depth maps for that, 3DU has a good looking tool for that which I have yet to try).

    That said, multiple renders of mine in the gallery use products like Atmospheres for Filament and Plane Ready Atmospheres for Iray (also works in Filament with some tweaking, albeit looking much more simplified). They're a really good way of adding some additional effects and ambience to a scene without postwork, especially if you want the foreground to pop more.

    Post edited by TheNathanParable on
  • vrba79 said:

    Earlier in the thread someone mentioned how to fake Depth of Field effects with camera dependant planes. Or at least I think they did. If so, can someone run that by me again?

    Just to add to what TheNathanParable said, I've also used Atmosphere for Filament and also SY Atmospheric Blur Filament as an alternative for DOF with Filament renders to soften the background details.

    The third option I tried was to parent two or three planes to the camera at various distances for outside scenes, with bluish base colors and low opacity to simulate atmopsheric perspective/haze and DOF. I add a light smudgy texture to the planes to create a bit of blur (like some of the glass textures in Glass for Filament or fog textures). For indoors, you can just use a single plane parented to the camera behind your main object(s) of interest, with a base color that matches the scene and/or a light texture, and low opacity.
     

  • MadaMada Posts: 2,012

    Thank you to everyone sharing their experiments and helping out with answers and posting images :)

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,408

    SapphireBlue said:

    vrba79 said:

    Earlier in the thread someone mentioned how to fake Depth of Field effects with camera dependant planes. Or at least I think they did. If so, can someone run that by me again?

    Just to add to what TheNathanParable said, I've also used Atmosphere for Filament and also SY Atmospheric Blur Filament as an alternative for DOF with Filament renders to soften the background details.

    The third option I tried was to parent two or three planes to the camera at various distances for outside scenes, with bluish base colors and low opacity to simulate atmopsheric perspective/haze and DOF. I add a light smudgy texture to the planes to create a bit of blur (like some of the glass textures in Glass for Filament or fog textures). For indoors, you can just use a single plane parented to the camera behind your main object(s) of interest, with a base color that matches the scene and/or a light texture, and low opacity.
     

    I don't suppose you've got a tutorial laying around for this method. It intrigues me.

  • SapphireBlueSapphireBlue Posts: 976
    edited November 2024

    vrba79 said:

    SapphireBlue said:

    vrba79 said:

    Earlier in the thread someone mentioned how to fake Depth of Field effects with camera dependant planes. Or at least I think they did. If so, can someone run that by me again?

    Just to add to what TheNathanParable said, I've also used Atmosphere for Filament and also SY Atmospheric Blur Filament as an alternative for DOF with Filament renders to soften the background details.

    The third option I tried was to parent two or three planes to the camera at various distances for outside scenes, with bluish base colors and low opacity to simulate atmopsheric perspective/haze and DOF. I add a light smudgy texture to the planes to create a bit of blur (like some of the glass textures in Glass for Filament or fog textures). For indoors, you can just use a single plane parented to the camera behind your main object(s) of interest, with a base color that matches the scene and/or a light texture, and low opacity.
     

    I don't suppose you've got a tutorial laying around for this method. It intrigues me.

    I'm guessing you mean the third option I mentioned? It's probably easy to show in a few images. I'm using the blue tinged planes for outdoor shots in this example, but you can have them white for a neutral approach or in a color that matches the scene, especially for indoor scenes. In the first image, I've got a sphere as my main subject in front of the camera, some cylinders at mid distance, and some more larger cylinders further back. They're all the same color. 

     

     

    I've got three planes. The Mid and Bg distance are just base color blue with low opacity. The third plane has an image of clouds from pexels with low opacity, to create a subtle texture for this example. Using any fog textures from SY's packs work for these textured planes well - just keep the opacity low. The mid plane is behind the main object, and the other two are behind the mid objects (you can just use one of these planes - either plain or with texture). I would use plain ones for simpler toon styles and for indoors. A fog/smoke texture works for outdoors and sky, an even glass texture at low opacity or something like that can be used anywhere for a blur feel.

     

    These planes are fine for still images, but not for animations, as items will just move through planes and that won't work. The atmo grids in  Atmosphere for Filament are better suited for animation, but they do mess with shadows when working with FilaToon I think unless you tweak things more. (Someone else mentioned what to do for that and SY's atmospheric blur domes).

     

    Without the planes, we get this:

     

    With the planes, we get the following, where we have more focus on the main subject and the background elements recede well, into the background. You can play with the opacity to see what works for your scenes.

    DOF Planes Viewport.png
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    DOF Planes Hidden.png
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    DOF Planes In action.png
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    Post edited by SapphireBlue on
  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,408

    Thanks! I'll give that a try.

  • MoogeeMoogee Posts: 45

    image

    So, can anyone explian how the shadows in this image were achived? 

  • KarthKarth Posts: 710

    That was a distant light pointed to the figure

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,035

    Some dForce Hair works just great!

    This is:

    dForce FV Side Part Hair for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D

    Converted to base FilaToon shader with Shading Smooth .3, tessellation set to 3/3, line width 8-2.

     

    FT Side Part Hair.jpg
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  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,658
    @Moogee Make sure you have shadows turned on for the light. @Oso3D That looks great! I did the same for the strand-bases gnome beard - a line tessellation of 3 and an increase in line width works really well to toonify strand-based dforce hair for filament. :)
  • Oso3D said:

    Some dForce Hair works just great!

    This is:

    dForce FV Side Part Hair for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D

    Converted to base FilaToon shader with Shading Smooth .3, tessellation set to 3/3, line width 8-2.

     

    Is the tesssellation option only found on strand based hairs?

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,576

    Oso3D said:

    Some dForce Hair works just great!

    This is:

    dForce FV Side Part Hair for Genesis 9 | Daz 3D

    Converted to base FilaToon shader with Shading Smooth .3, tessellation set to 3/3, line width 8-2.

     

    Is the tesssellation option only found on strand based hairs?

    Yes
  • So I bought April's dForce Morgan Hair along with its FilaToon addon because I was curious to see how she managed to get toon outlines working on dForce hair, and the answer turned out to be really simple...just duplicate it!

    Basically the FilaToon version will equip two copies of the hairstyle on your character. Both have the same general settings, except the second copy has increased hair thickness and the outline shader applied.

    So I went back to my older FilaToon dForce hair test and tried it out for myself, and it works! Surprisingly enough there aren't even any issues with simulating it (not that I know of anyway). It's not perfect, as sometimes certain hair strands can simulate differently and cause mis-aligned outlines, but until Daz fix geometry shells to work properly on dForce hair this is a good workaround!

    DforceToonHairTestAgain.png
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  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 15,035

    oooooh. I was WONDERING how she managed that!!

     

  • HylasHylas Posts: 5,048

    TheNathanParable said:

    So I bought April's dForce Morgan Hair along with its FilaToon addon because I was curious to see how she managed to get toon outlines working on dForce hair, and the answer turned out to be really simple...just duplicate it!

    Basically the FilaToon version will equip two copies of the hairstyle on your character. Both have the same general settings, except the second copy has increased hair thickness and the outline shader applied.

    So I went back to my older FilaToon dForce hair test and tried it out for myself, and it works! Surprisingly enough there aren't even any issues with simulating it (not that I know of anyway). It's not perfect, as sometimes certain hair strands can simulate differently and cause mis-aligned outlines, but until Daz fix geometry shells to work properly on dForce hair this is a good workaround!

    surprise

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,993

    Is there a way to get a reflection in a mirror in FilaToon (or Filment for that matter.) 

  • Wonderland said:

    Is there a way to get a reflection in a mirror in FilaToon (or Filment for that matter.) 

    I'd love to know this too. There is an option for "screen-space reflections", but it doesn't seem to actually do anything. In fact, there are honestly quite a few Filament options that don't seem to actually do anything, which is honestly perplexing.

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 6,993

    I asked ChatGPT (which actually gives surprisingly good responses usually for questions about DS use) and it said this: 

    Yes, you can create mirror reflections in Daz Studio using the Filament renderer, though Filament’s real-time rendering engine does not support true ray-traced reflections like Iray. However, you can achieve a mirror effect using clever techniques:

    Steps to Create Mirror Reflections in Filament:

        1.    Set Up a Reflective Surface:

        •    Apply a reflective shader to the surface you want to use as a mirror.

        •    Use the Daz Studio Default Shader or a custom shader with metallic and roughness settings:

        •    Metallic: Set it to 1 (fully metallic).

        •    Roughness: Set it to 0 (perfectly smooth surface).

        2.    Simulate Reflections:

        •    Since Filament doesn’t render actual reflections, you can simulate them using Screen Space Reflections (SSR). Enable SSR in the Render Settings for Filament:

        •    Go to Render Settings > Filament > Screen Space Reflections and turn it on.

        •    This will provide basic reflective effects for objects visible in the camera’s view.

        3.    Adjust Lighting:

        •    Place lights in your scene carefully to enhance the look of the mirror-like surface.

        •    Use HDRI lighting to add environmental reflections if needed.

        4.    Use Camera Tricks for More Complex Reflections:

        •    Duplicate and flip your scene or objects behind the mirror for advanced effects.

        •    Use a secondary camera to render the mirrored perspective and composite it into your scene.

        5.    Test in Viewport:

        •    Preview the effect directly in the Filament viewport to fine-tune settings.

    For higher-quality and more realistic reflections, you may need to switch to Iray, as it supports true ray-traced reflections, but these steps will give you a reasonable approximation in Filament.

     

     

  • Yeah, just tried those first two steps and no difference. Screen Space Reflections still seems to do nothing.

  • Sounds weird, but I have had to switch the type of scene setting from filament to one of the others (iRay, texture shading, wire) and then back for the program to take any changes into effect. Not always, but sometimes. I hope I explained that correctly.

  • TheNathanParableTheNathanParable Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2024
    Unfortunately, switching to iray view and back again to filament didn't change anything (although I was at least able to confirm that reflections work fine with those settings in iray). I have a feeling that this might be one of those Filament features that isn't fully implemented yet. According to the GitHub it's also supposed to support depth of field with bokeh, but that's not available in Daz's version either.

    https://github.com/google/filament

    Post edited by TheNathanParable on
  • ElorElor Posts: 1,786

    A question for people who have Filatoon vehicles (I don't have any): do you have a 'Default/Materials/FilaToon/Vehicles' category in Smart Content after you installed it, the same way there is a 'Default/Materials/Iray/Vehicles' ?

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,556

    Elor said:

    A question for people who have Filatoon vehicles (I don't have any): do you have a 'Default/Materials/FilaToon/Vehicles' category in Smart Content after you installed it, the same way there is a 'Default/Materials/Iray/Vehicles' ?

    I've not seen such a sub-category yet, though I have one product XI Anime Motorcycle. The category of filatoon Mat. Preset are wrongly assigned to Default/Materials/Iray/Vehicles which should've been Default/Materials/FilaToon/Vehicles.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,556
    edited December 2024

    Wonderland said:

    I asked ChatGPT (which actually gives surprisingly good responses usually for questions about DS use) and it said this: 

    Yes, you can create mirror reflections in Daz Studio using the Filament renderer, though Filament’s real-time rendering engine does not support true ray-traced reflections like Iray. However, you can achieve a mirror effect using clever techniques:

    Steps to Create Mirror Reflections in Filament:

        1.    Set Up a Reflective Surface:

        •    Apply a reflective shader to the surface you want to use as a mirror.

        •    Use the Daz Studio Default Shader or a custom shader with metallic and roughness settings:

        •    Metallic: Set it to 1 (fully metallic).

        •    Roughness: Set it to 0 (perfectly smooth surface).

        2.    Simulate Reflections:

        •    Since Filament doesn’t render actual reflections, you can simulate them using Screen Space Reflections (SSR). Enable SSR in the Render Settings for Filament:

        •    Go to Render Settings > Filament > Screen Space Reflections and turn it on.

        •    This will provide basic reflective effects for objects visible in the camera’s view.

        3.    Adjust Lighting:

        •    Place lights in your scene carefully to enhance the look of the mirror-like surface.

        •    Use HDRI lighting to add environmental reflections if needed.

        4.    Use Camera Tricks for More Complex Reflections:

        •    Duplicate and flip your scene or objects behind the mirror for advanced effects.

        •    Use a secondary camera to render the mirrored perspective and composite it into your scene.

        5.    Test in Viewport:

        •    Preview the effect directly in the Filament viewport to fine-tune settings.

    For higher-quality and more realistic reflections, you may need to switch to Iray, as it supports true ray-traced reflections, but these steps will give you a reasonable approximation in Filament.

    I'm been experimenting reflections with Filatoon / Filament but no solution has worked so far in DS. Does the above trick work on your side ?  It didn't work for me.

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • crosswind said:

    I'm been experimenting reflections with Filatoon / Filament but no solution has worked so far in DS. Does the above trick work on your side ?  It didn't work for me.

    I believe it was already mentioned that this doesn't appear to work as expected. It looks like the only reflections Daz implemented are that of the environment map/HDRI.

  • ElorElor Posts: 1,786

    crosswind said:

    I've not seen such a sub-category yet, though I have one product XI Anime Motorcycle. The category of filatoon Mat. Preset are wrongly assigned to Default/Materials/Iray/Vehicles which should've been Default/Materials/FilaToon/Vehicles.

    Thank you !

    It's too bad because there is already plenty of categories under Default/Materials/FilaToon.

    I wasn't sure I could but I was able to create it while assigning metadata to a filatoon mat presets (avoiding spelling mistakes due to the proximity of some words between French and English by using Copy-Paste and replacing Iray by FilaToon blush).

    Now I just have to test if it'll survive being packaged and installed in another computer.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 7,556

    Elor said:

    crosswind said:

    I've not seen such a sub-category yet, though I have one product XI Anime Motorcycle. The category of filatoon Mat. Preset are wrongly assigned to Default/Materials/Iray/Vehicles which should've been Default/Materials/FilaToon/Vehicles.

    Thank you !

    It's too bad because there is already plenty of categories under Default/Materials/FilaToon.

    I wasn't sure I could but I was able to create it while assigning metadata to a filatoon mat presets (avoiding spelling mistakes due to the proximity of some words between French and English by using Copy-Paste and replacing Iray by FilaToon blush).

    Now I just have to test if it'll survive being packaged and installed in another computer.

    Yea, no problem ! You can freely add the sub-ategory you need and assign it to the user-facing files. Then save / update the medatada file (*.dsx file) for packaging the product. When installing the product or importing metadata file in another computer, that category will be created accordingly.

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